Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation

By: anon (spam.delete.delete.delete@this.this.this.spam.com), April 18, 2019 12:07 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
aaron spink (aaronspink.delete@this.notearthlink.net) on April 18, 2019 11:42 am wrote:
> anon (spam.delete.delete.delete@this.this.this.spam.com) on April 18, 2019 11:24 am wrote:
> > Are we looking at the same specs? It says 3500 MB/s for both for me.
> > Either way that's limited more by the controller, the number of chips and the interface rather
> > than the NAND. They could surely build a controller that would squeeze more out of the MLC, but
> > what use is a controller that can get 5000-6000 MB/s read speeds with a PCIe 3.0 x4 interface?
> >
> EVO Plus has the same read bandwidth but higher write bandwidth.
>

3200 for the SLC cache, 900 for the QLC. Seems lower than the 2300 for the 970 Pro TLC to me.
Or do we start counting DRAM caches as QLC performance next?

>
> > We're still talking about TLC here, not QLC. Take a look at those and then tell
> > me if that's still acceptable. It's debatable but I'm leaning towards no.
> >
> QLC doesn't change the bandwidth per chip for all intents and purposes (there are slightly
> higher latencies but for the purposes of these type of workloads it is in the noise). QLC
> can reach the same practical read bandwidths that TLC can. QLC's issues are write latency
> and endurance, both of which don't actually really effect sequential performance.
>

Yes, we all agree that any NAND will get stupidly high sequential read speeds, higher than the controller and interfae can handle.
This does not make the downsides of QLC disappear.

>
> > Correct and I don't think QLC will cut it. What does it offer compared with MLC/TLC
> > large enough to cache a few games + an HDD which will definitely be cheaper?
>
> For $80 you'll probably be able to get ~3-4 TB of QLC.

Are you sure they'll be able to get 1 TB QLC for 20$ a year or so before launch? Judging by current prices something would have to go horribly wrong for NAND manufacturers to offer such a deal.

> HDD have a realistic floor of ~$30. If you want
> to do flash + HDD using TLC, you are looking at ~1TB of flash + 3-4TB of disk. 3-4TB of QLC is going to
> cream that in the type of workloads under consideration. The point of QLC is that in read dominate workloads,
> nothing else can really compete with it from either a cost AND performance perspective. That is why datacenters
> are seriously looking at switching from HDD to QLC/OLC for nearline in the near future.
>

I would've said 250-500 GB NAND + 4 TB HDD. Do the math with that and I've also used higher prices for QLC. I'll believe in 20$ per TB when I see it. If your premise is that the price of NAND will be lower than any HDD of the same capacity then the workload doesn't even factor into it anymore. I'm just not willing to buy your premise.

Also datacenter workloads are quite different. You'd expect all data to be accessed. Unless someone comes up with a >500 GB game and I really doubt that the working set will never exceed that size and a 500 GB cache will work quite well. Realistically I'd expect much less. Apart from a few outliers it's mostly around 50 GB now, so 100-150, maybe 200 for a few sound reasonable. That's 3-5 games fully cached on 500 GB. Seems good enough to me. Again, that's quite different from a datacenter workload.
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Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationsleep2019/04/16 11:04 PM
  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDoug S2019/04/17 12:20 AM
  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAnon2019/04/17 01:18 AM
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    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAndrew Clough2019/04/17 05:33 AM
      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/17 09:08 AM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAndrew Clough2019/04/17 10:21 AM
          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 07:29 PM
            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationblue2019/04/20 08:29 PM
              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/20 09:29 PM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationBlue2019/04/21 03:25 AM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/21 07:45 AM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationpgerassi2019/04/21 06:56 PM
                      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/21 09:18 PM
                        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationpgerassi2019/04/22 08:33 AM
                          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/22 09:54 AM
                            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationpgerassi2019/04/22 11:45 PM
                              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/23 07:36 AM
                                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/23 08:06 AM
                                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/23 11:32 AM
                                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/28 05:46 PM
    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanother-anon2019/04/17 11:10 AM
    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 07:23 PM
      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/20 09:32 PM
  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationNoSpammer2019/04/17 03:50 AM
    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/17 09:24 AM
      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/17 09:44 AM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDoug S2019/04/17 10:28 AM
          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 07:36 AM
            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/18 08:55 AM
              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 11:24 AM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationaaron spink2019/04/18 11:42 AM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 12:07 PM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/18 02:32 PM
                      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 03:32 PM
                        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/18 03:41 PM
                          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/19 01:53 AM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 08:14 PM
                      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/20 09:42 PM
                        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/28 05:52 PM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationPiedPiper2019/04/18 07:33 PM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/19 02:03 AM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/19 06:50 AM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationaaron spink2019/04/19 07:25 AM
                      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/19 08:40 AM
            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationjames2019/04/18 10:13 AM
              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 11:39 AM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationaaron spink2019/04/18 11:46 AM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 03:22 PM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 08:34 PM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/20 09:48 PM
            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDoug S2019/04/18 02:33 PM
              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationsleep2019/04/18 06:38 PM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 08:27 PM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationsleep2019/04/21 03:07 AM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/28 05:54 PM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/17 11:48 AM
          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 07:46 AM
            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/18 09:05 AM
              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 11:51 AM
                Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/18 02:50 PM
                  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 03:16 PM
                    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationAaron Spink2019/04/18 03:36 PM
                      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/19 01:57 AM
                        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/19 02:18 AM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/17 12:13 PM
          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationanon2019/04/18 08:07 AM
      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/19 03:03 AM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/19 07:40 AM
          Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/19 08:29 AM
            Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationwumpus2019/04/19 05:38 PM
              Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationSimon Farnsworth2019/04/20 02:02 AM
        Why are you assuming it will even have an optical drive?Doug S2019/04/19 10:53 AM
          Why are you assuming it will even have an optical drive?Jukka Larja2019/04/19 12:19 PM
            Why are you assuming it will even have an optical drive?David Hess2019/04/20 08:45 PM
          the source article...blue2019/04/20 05:50 AM
            the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/20 07:29 AM
              the source article...wumpus2019/04/20 08:48 AM
                the source article...aaron spink2019/04/20 08:51 AM
                  the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/20 11:47 AM
              the source article...Groo2019/04/20 09:36 AM
                the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/20 12:08 PM
                  the source article...Groo2019/04/20 12:37 PM
                    the source article...Doug S2019/04/21 12:11 AM
                      the source article...Doug S2019/04/21 12:33 AM
                      the source article...Blue2019/04/21 03:30 AM
                        the source article...Doug S2019/04/21 10:08 AM
                          the source article...blue2019/04/23 12:36 AM
                            the source article...Aaron Spink2019/04/23 08:27 AM
                              the source article...Brett2019/04/23 11:22 AM
                                the source article...Aaron Spink2019/04/23 11:43 AM
                              the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/23 11:55 AM
                                the source article...Aaron Spink2019/04/24 01:15 PM
                                  the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/25 05:53 AM
                                    the source article...none2019/04/25 06:14 AM
                                      the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/25 11:32 AM
                                    the source article...Aaron Spink2019/04/25 07:06 AM
                                      the source article...anon2019/04/25 09:00 AM
                                        the source article...Aaron Spink2019/04/25 12:12 PM
                                          the source article...anon2019/04/26 11:27 AM
                                      the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/25 11:40 AM
                                        the source article...Aaron Spink2019/04/25 12:08 PM
                            the source article...Doug S2019/04/23 10:33 AM
                  the source article...David Hess2019/04/20 08:51 PM
                    the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/20 10:00 PM
                  the source article...gallier22019/04/24 12:01 AM
                    the source article...Jukka Larja2019/04/24 05:25 AM
                the source article...David Hess2019/04/20 08:49 PM
                  the source article...Groo2019/04/21 07:41 AM
      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 08:19 PM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJukka Larja2019/04/20 10:15 PM
  Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJose2019/04/17 10:00 PM
    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJose2019/04/18 03:33 AM
      Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationdmcq2019/04/18 05:30 AM
        Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationJose2019/04/18 10:41 PM
    Wired Exclusive: What to Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStationDavid Hess2019/04/20 09:06 PM
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