By: Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar), April 18, 2019 2:33 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
anon (spam.delete.delete.delete@this.this.this.spam.com) on April 18, 2019 7:36 am wrote:
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on April 17, 2019 10:28 am wrote:
> > anon (spam.delete.delete.delete@this.this.this.spam.com) on April 17, 2019 9:44 am wrote:
> > > I'd look at this from a different perspective. There will at the very least be 1 TB version
> > > or it would be a downgrade. I think it's safe to assume that there will b a 2 TB version.
> > > Think about what a 2 TB NVMe SSD that's actually faster than a SATA SSD (so not just a shitty 300 MB/s
> > > 20k IOPS SSD with NVMe tacked on) costs. You can't spend >200$ on storage for a 400$ console.
> > > Similarly I don't think it'll be 8 TB HDD + SSD.
> >
> >
> > What a 2 TB NVMe SSD costs is irrelevant, what 2 TB of NAND costs at the time Sony begins shipments
> > is all that matters. Sony can easily afford to design/license a custom controller chip that interfaces
> > NAND soldered to the board to PCIe 4.0 traces from the CPU with very high efficiency since a games
> > console is basically an embedded system and the full NVMe stack would be overkill.
>
> I was referring to the "more raw bandwidth than anything available for PC".
> The NAND in fast NVMe SSDs costs quite a bit more than that in a bottom of the barrel 20k IOPS QLC SSD.
NAND bandwidth is mostly limited by how it is connected (i.e. SATA or PCIe3) not the individual NAND devices themselves. PCIe3 x4 has a max speed of 4 GB/sec, which after overhead is less which is where you see today's max of around 3500 MB/sec. Now imagine Sony is using PCIe4 x4 - that's 8 GB/sec which after overhead is less but still twice what any PC SSD is capable of. You might need wider paths between controller and NAND, but it is an embedded device so you don't need a socket or slot to plug a physical SSD into - it will be soldered onto the board. The controller and NAND may be stacked so any greater data path width is hidden inside TSMC's packaging.
I don't know why you are looking for esoteric solutions when the fact it is an embedded system and PCIe4 will be available when reaches the market easily account for Sony's hyberbolic claim.
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on April 17, 2019 10:28 am wrote:
> > anon (spam.delete.delete.delete@this.this.this.spam.com) on April 17, 2019 9:44 am wrote:
> > > I'd look at this from a different perspective. There will at the very least be 1 TB version
> > > or it would be a downgrade. I think it's safe to assume that there will b a 2 TB version.
> > > Think about what a 2 TB NVMe SSD that's actually faster than a SATA SSD (so not just a shitty 300 MB/s
> > > 20k IOPS SSD with NVMe tacked on) costs. You can't spend >200$ on storage for a 400$ console.
> > > Similarly I don't think it'll be 8 TB HDD + SSD.
> >
> >
> > What a 2 TB NVMe SSD costs is irrelevant, what 2 TB of NAND costs at the time Sony begins shipments
> > is all that matters. Sony can easily afford to design/license a custom controller chip that interfaces
> > NAND soldered to the board to PCIe 4.0 traces from the CPU with very high efficiency since a games
> > console is basically an embedded system and the full NVMe stack would be overkill.
>
> I was referring to the "more raw bandwidth than anything available for PC".
> The NAND in fast NVMe SSDs costs quite a bit more than that in a bottom of the barrel 20k IOPS QLC SSD.
NAND bandwidth is mostly limited by how it is connected (i.e. SATA or PCIe3) not the individual NAND devices themselves. PCIe3 x4 has a max speed of 4 GB/sec, which after overhead is less which is where you see today's max of around 3500 MB/sec. Now imagine Sony is using PCIe4 x4 - that's 8 GB/sec which after overhead is less but still twice what any PC SSD is capable of. You might need wider paths between controller and NAND, but it is an embedded device so you don't need a socket or slot to plug a physical SSD into - it will be soldered onto the board. The controller and NAND may be stacked so any greater data path width is hidden inside TSMC's packaging.
I don't know why you are looking for esoteric solutions when the fact it is an embedded system and PCIe4 will be available when reaches the market easily account for Sony's hyberbolic claim.