So Qualcomm got less than 2/3 of what they wanted

By: Beastian (no.email.delete@this.aol.com), May 2, 2019 10:43 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on May 2, 2019 10:35 am wrote:
> Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us) on May 2, 2019 9:25 am wrote:
> > Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us) on April 18, 2019 4:47 pm wrote:
> > > https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/04/qualcomm-shares-up-20-percent-after-apple-agrees-to-settlement/
> > >
> > > I was interested what will the enlightened people say about the Qualcomm-Cuppertino deal
> > > so that us lowly mental protozoa know what to think about it, but still nothing, alas.
> > >
> > > So what is the impression from that?
> > > Is it more Apple caving in its attempts to save a bit of the few dollars they
> > > pay in licensing per phone (while they raise enduser's prices by much more...),
> > > because the case didn't look good and neither did Intel's 5G modem?
> > > Or did they win and forced Qualcomm to give them superbly special
> > > prices, as they were afraid of what would happen at the court?
> > > (Honest question btw.)
> >
> > Apparently the size of the payment Qualcomm gets from the settlement
> > as damages or past payments Apple owed them, is $4.5-4.7 billion.
> >
> > https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/01/qualcomm-expects-at-least-4point5-billion-from-apple-settlement.html
>
>
> Qualcomm stated last fall that Apple owed them $7 billion in back royalties, a number which would
> have increased since then, so they accepted less than 2/3 of what they had said they were owed.
>
> Now we'll have to see if there's enough information in the future for us to tease out what Apple is paying
> going forward. The only hint we have so far is the Qualcomm CEO's claim of $2 EPS increase "as product
> shipments begin to ramp" which means it includes both royalties and their per chip profit margin.
>
> At Qualcomm's share price at the time of the CEO's statement, and based on Apple selling 200 million
> iPhones a year (they sold 227 million in 2017) that comes to a total of about $12.50/phone for royalties
> and chip profit. Under their previous agreement with Qualcomm, Apple was previously paying $7.50 per
> phone in royalties (saying they wanted to pay $1.50) and an unknown amount in chip profit, so we can't
> know whether Apple or Qualcomm got the better end of that part of the agreement.

Don't forget the judgement against Qualcomm that the $1B withheld from Apple in rebates (per the understanding reached in their business cooperation agreement) had to be refunded, so the total owed for the devices inferred from that payment in 2017 and 2018 would come out to $5.5B-5.7B.

The $7B quantity they cited was a showy figure made during a hearing:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-qualcomm/qualcomm-says-apple-7-billion-behind-in-royalty-payments-idUSKCN1N102D

That would be more in line w/ a rack rate of 5.25% off of a cap of $400 that would have applied by default after the business cooperation agreement terms expired at the start of 2017, but I doubt Apple was ever going to pay that. The one time payment also includes a part of a quarter of iPhones and probably a few LTE iPads in the mix as well and the agreed upon repayments net to around $10-$11 a device.

Given the historical rate of $7.50, the extra $2.50 or so a device probably accounted for the jury judgement awarding $1.41 a device for 3 of Qualcomm's better non-SEPs, interest, opportunity cost, and damages done to Qualcomm. It's still far from the punitive damages Apple could have gotten for its interference of CM contracts and theft of Qualcomm source code which would have prevented future abuse of market power by Apple. Presumably Qualcomm learned quite a bit from its ordeal and structured its deal in a way that draws less scrutiny from regulators in the future and with sufficient leverage against Apple.

The judgement against Qualcomm permitting regulatory testimony (in spite of the understanding under the contract reached with Apple) would hold just as well for this agreement, and Qualcomm could lobby regulators as Apple had should they try something similar in the future. Perhaps Intel will testify in their corner the next time around about Apple's abuse of market power.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/04/18 03:47 PM
  antitrust implications? (NT)anonymous22019/04/18 07:53 PM
    antitrust implications?Doug S2019/04/18 08:50 PM
      antitrust implications?Beastian2019/04/18 10:02 PM
  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/18 08:45 PM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsdmcq2019/04/18 10:05 PM
      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/18 10:28 PM
        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsAdrian2019/04/18 11:48 PM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsdmcq2019/04/19 05:54 AM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsAdrian2019/04/19 09:33 AM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsdmcq2019/04/19 10:54 AM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/19 11:03 AM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/19 07:38 AM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipssylt2019/04/19 09:28 AM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/19 10:03 AM
                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipssylt2019/04/19 11:08 PM
                  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/20 09:15 AM
                    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 09:41 AM
                    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipssylt2019/04/20 01:22 PM
                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/20 07:31 PM
                        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 09:41 PM
                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsGroo2019/04/21 06:50 AM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsAdrian2019/04/19 09:45 AM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/19 10:27 AM
                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/19 11:09 AM
                  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/19 11:17 AM
                    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/19 12:19 PM
                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsGroo2019/04/20 05:50 AM
                        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 09:49 AM
                          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/20 10:08 AM
                            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 11:18 PM
                              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 11:19 PM
        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/19 09:46 AM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/19 10:50 AM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/19 03:17 PM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/19 09:59 PM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsGroo2019/04/20 08:28 AM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/20 09:33 AM
                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 11:26 PM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/20 09:55 AM
      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsAndreas2019/04/19 03:55 AM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsAndrew Clough2019/04/19 05:19 AM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsGroo2019/04/19 06:44 AM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/19 10:49 AM
    Read this and realize what Apple doesGroo2019/04/19 03:27 PM
  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/19 10:32 AM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/04/19 11:15 AM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/19 01:48 PM
      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/19 02:53 PM
        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/19 10:05 PM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/20 09:49 AM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/20 11:07 PM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/05/15 06:51 AM
                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/05/15 10:16 AM
                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/15 11:21 AM
  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/04/25 10:37 AM
    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/25 11:43 AM
      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsdmcq2019/04/26 01:22 AM
        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/04/26 09:05 AM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/26 10:57 AM
            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsAnon2019/04/27 03:11 PM
              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/04/27 07:15 PM
                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/04/28 05:59 AM
                  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/05/02 11:01 AM
                    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/02 02:58 PM
                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/02 03:27 PM
                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsanonymou52019/05/02 04:37 PM
                        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/05/03 12:35 AM
                          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/03 08:32 AM
                            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/05/03 12:32 PM
                              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/03 02:45 PM
                                Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsUmmmm...2019/05/03 03:35 PM
                                  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/03 03:56 PM
                                  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/05/03 08:10 PM
                                    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/05/03 08:11 PM
                                    Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/03 09:12 PM
                                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/05/04 07:33 AM
                      Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDoug S2019/05/03 12:11 AM
                        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/05/06 08:09 AM
                          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/06 10:40 AM
                            Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsBeastian2019/05/06 12:16 PM
                              Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsMaynard Handley2019/05/06 03:15 PM
                        Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsSimon Farnsworth2019/05/07 04:23 AM
          Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsdmcq2019/04/26 11:52 AM
  Apple agrees to become Qualcomm's licensee and returns to their baseband chipsDummond D. Slow2019/05/02 08:25 AM
    So Qualcomm got less than 2/3 of what they wantedDoug S2019/05/02 09:35 AM
      So Qualcomm got less than 2/3 of what they wantedBeastian2019/05/02 10:43 AM
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