By: Robert Williams (crispysilicon.delete@this.gmail.com), April 20, 2019 7:15 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Beastian (noemail.delete@this.aol.com) on April 19, 2019 11:10 am wrote:
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on April 19, 2019 10:40 am wrote:
> > Beastian (noemail.delete@this.aol.com) on April 19, 2019 9:05 am wrote:
> > > Does anyone think that the upcoming expiry of patents on the core x86-64 instruction set
> > > which includes SSE2, maybe sooner than 2023 (as the Athlon 64 was introduced in 2003) would
> > > open the flood gates for third party implementations of compatible processors?
> > >
> > > The basic architecture including importantly the memory model could freely be implemented in hardware
> > > once that core instruction set falls out of patent; I'm unclear about the amount of traction that later
> > > Intel instructions have gotten in common software, but emulation could at least ensure compatibility.
> > > Competition in x86 implementation has languished for long
> > > stretches of time, though it has seen a resurgence
> > > as of late; compare that to the ARM ecosystem which has seen vast improvements due to a larger number
> > > of implementers: Apple, Qualcomm, nVidia, Samsung, ARM, Applied Micro and Cavium.
> >
> >
> > Who would be interested in making an x86-64 compatible CPU?
> > I know, I know, someone is going to suggest "Apple"
> > so they can have a dual x64/ARM64 SoC for the Mac to ease the transition, but ignoring them, who?
> >
> > Some may point to China, but AMD already sells some pretty cheap CPUs so unless they can do a good
> > enough design to match higher end AMD/Intel CPUs what's the point? And if they were going to do
> > it, they wouldn't wait until the patents expire - they would have started the design years ago so
> > it could be ready when the patents expire. Surely someone would have caught wind of it by now.
>
> That's a good lead, and you were right:
>
> https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/733/zhaoxin-launches-their-highest-performance-chinese-x86-chips/
The answer would be VIA.
I think they still have x86 IP from Cyrix? They developed Zhaoxin for China.
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on April 19, 2019 10:40 am wrote:
> > Beastian (noemail.delete@this.aol.com) on April 19, 2019 9:05 am wrote:
> > > Does anyone think that the upcoming expiry of patents on the core x86-64 instruction set
> > > which includes SSE2, maybe sooner than 2023 (as the Athlon 64 was introduced in 2003) would
> > > open the flood gates for third party implementations of compatible processors?
> > >
> > > The basic architecture including importantly the memory model could freely be implemented in hardware
> > > once that core instruction set falls out of patent; I'm unclear about the amount of traction that later
> > > Intel instructions have gotten in common software, but emulation could at least ensure compatibility.
> > > Competition in x86 implementation has languished for long
> > > stretches of time, though it has seen a resurgence
> > > as of late; compare that to the ARM ecosystem which has seen vast improvements due to a larger number
> > > of implementers: Apple, Qualcomm, nVidia, Samsung, ARM, Applied Micro and Cavium.
> >
> >
> > Who would be interested in making an x86-64 compatible CPU?
> > I know, I know, someone is going to suggest "Apple"
> > so they can have a dual x64/ARM64 SoC for the Mac to ease the transition, but ignoring them, who?
> >
> > Some may point to China, but AMD already sells some pretty cheap CPUs so unless they can do a good
> > enough design to match higher end AMD/Intel CPUs what's the point? And if they were going to do
> > it, they wouldn't wait until the patents expire - they would have started the design years ago so
> > it could be ready when the patents expire. Surely someone would have caught wind of it by now.
>
> That's a good lead, and you were right:
>
> https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/733/zhaoxin-launches-their-highest-performance-chinese-x86-chips/
The answer would be VIA.
I think they still have x86 IP from Cyrix? They developed Zhaoxin for China.
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Beastian | 2019/04/19 08:05 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2019/04/19 08:46 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Beastian | 2019/04/19 09:06 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2019/04/19 09:44 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2019/04/19 10:12 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2019/04/19 11:41 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Robert Williams | 2019/04/19 12:18 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2019/04/19 01:35 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | IntelUser2000 | 2020/10/30 01:17 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2020/10/30 06:49 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | me | 2020/10/30 08:47 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2020/10/30 08:52 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Mark Roulo | 2020/10/30 09:21 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2020/10/30 10:29 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Mark Roulo | 2020/10/30 10:42 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2020/10/30 08:04 PM |
SIMD syntax | hobold | 2020/10/31 05:54 AM |
SIMD syntax | Jukka Larja | 2020/10/31 08:14 AM |
SIMD syntax | hobold | 2020/11/01 07:22 AM |
SIMD syntax | Jukka Larja | 2020/11/01 10:11 AM |
SIMD syntax | hobold | 2020/11/02 04:33 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | me | 2020/10/31 02:01 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2020/10/31 08:23 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Foo_ | 2020/11/01 03:48 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2020/11/01 06:01 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Adrian | 2020/10/30 11:02 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Bigos | 2020/10/30 12:20 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Geoff Langdale | 2019/04/19 01:52 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Jukka Larja | 2019/04/19 08:38 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Yuhong Bao | 2019/04/20 01:35 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Doug S | 2019/04/19 09:40 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Beastian | 2019/04/19 10:10 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Robert Williams | 2019/04/20 07:15 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Robert Williams | 2020/10/28 05:42 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | anyone | 2019/04/20 06:11 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Groo | 2019/04/20 06:29 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | wumpus | 2019/04/20 07:32 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | blaine | 2020/10/30 11:03 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | David Kanter | 2020/10/30 07:59 PM |
Intel vs AMD patents | Yuhong Bao | 2019/04/20 01:32 PM |
Intel vs AMD patents | Beastian | 2019/04/20 02:35 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Travis Downs | 2019/04/20 06:24 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | none | 2019/04/21 06:36 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | somebody | 2019/11/27 09:44 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Anon3 | 2019/11/27 04:16 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Travis Downs | 2019/11/27 05:17 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Montaray Jack | 2019/11/27 11:03 PM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | none | 2019/11/28 12:57 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | dmcq | 2019/11/28 10:20 AM |
Expiry of x86-64 patents | Montaray Jack | 2019/11/29 04:00 AM |