RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8

By: TREZA (info.delete@this.temlib.org), November 7, 2019 1:31 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
David Hess (davidwhess.delete@this.gmail.com) on November 6, 2019 6:36 pm wrote:
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on November 6, 2019 11:47 am wrote:
> > anon.1 (abc.delete@this.def.com) on November 6, 2019 11:19 am wrote:
> > >
> > > The whole point of RISC was to make
> > > decode simple. Now they want to add complexity in decode because, well, the ISA is oversimplified.
> >
> > The RISC concept was created 40 years ago. Things have changed, designers have a transistor
> > budget orders of magnitude larger today so what was appropriate for a decoder in 1980
> > shouldn't be a limitation on what is appropriate for a decoder in 2020.
>
> We are back to the situation which produced CISC processors where memory access time, to integrated cache in
> this case, limits performance so instruction complexity beyond the absolute minimum is not a disadvantage.
>


First generation ARMs were designed for home computers (Acorn Archimedes) which could not afford cache RAM.
CPU timings were optimized to align with page mode DRAM accesses, which prevented high frequency operation but gave time for more complex single cycle instructions compared to pure RISCs as MIPS and SPARC.

The simple design and moderate frequency also made it a cheap low-power chip (a bit by surprise) with a plastic package faster than contemporary ceramic i386.

30 years later, we are still with ARM making CPUs with "rich" instructions and the creators of SPARC (Patterson team at Berkeley) still making pure RISCs instruction sets, albeit without bad ideas like delayed branches.

(reference : https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2012/05/102746196-05-01-acc.pdf)

< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Risc-V getting real?Anon2019/10/31 03:10 PM
  Risc-V getting real?Gabriele Svelto2019/11/01 03:28 AM
    Risc-V getting real?anon2019/11/02 01:46 AM
      Risc-V getting real?lockederboss2019/11/02 01:49 AM
      Risc-V getting real?Gabriele Svelto2019/11/03 02:20 AM
        Risc-V getting real?Michael S2019/11/03 03:03 AM
          Risc-V getting real?Gabriele Svelto2019/11/03 04:45 AM
        Risc-V getting real?anon2019/11/03 08:29 PM
          Risc-V getting real?Gabriele Svelto2019/11/04 06:39 AM
        Risc-V getting real?dmcq2019/11/04 06:41 AM
    Documentation QualityKonrad Schwarz2019/11/04 05:43 AM
      Documentation QualityGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 06:31 AM
        Documentation QualityAnon2019/11/04 12:28 PM
  Trivium: Andy Glew works for SiFivePaul A. Clayton2019/11/01 10:51 AM
    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Heikki Kultala2019/11/02 02:31 AM
      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Ronald Maas2019/11/02 10:02 AM
        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Ronald Maas2019/11/02 10:04 AM
          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/02 03:18 PM
        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Adrian2019/11/02 10:33 AM
          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon2019/11/02 10:49 AM
            RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Wilco2019/11/02 12:20 PM
              RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon2019/11/02 01:57 PM
              RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Ronald Maas2019/11/03 08:58 AM
                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon2019/11/03 10:06 AM
                  RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Gabriele Svelto2019/11/04 06:43 AM
                    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon2019/11/04 07:03 AM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Gabriele Svelto2019/11/04 07:13 AM
                        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/04 09:58 AM
                    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/04 09:57 AM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8rwessel2019/11/04 10:25 AM
                        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/04 10:48 AM
                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Wilco2019/11/03 12:09 PM
                  RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Ronald Maas2019/11/03 10:44 PM
                    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Wilco2019/11/04 04:01 PM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Gabriele Svelto2019/11/04 04:14 PM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8R2019/11/04 11:35 PM
                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8sylt2019/11/03 01:35 PM
                  RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8l2019/11/03 08:26 PM
            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/03 02:25 AM
              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesWilco2019/11/03 06:38 AM
                The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesLinus Torvalds2019/11/03 10:03 AM
                The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 06:29 AM
                  The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/04 06:38 AM
                    The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 06:45 AM
                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/04 06:55 AM
                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 07:17 AM
                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/04 09:36 AM
                            I'm glad you're not that blind :) (NT)none2019/11/04 09:36 AM
                            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 10:23 AM
                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesMaynard Handley2019/11/04 06:16 PM
                            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 11:42 PM
                              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesAdrian2019/11/05 06:25 AM
                                The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesRonald Maas2019/11/05 06:04 PM
                                  The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/06 02:21 AM
                                    The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesdmcq2019/11/06 03:31 AM
                                    The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesKonrad Schwarz2019/11/06 07:03 AM
                                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/06 07:57 AM
                                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/06 08:55 AM
                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesanon2019/11/04 07:24 AM
                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 04:07 PM
                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesanon2019/11/04 05:02 PM
                            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/04 11:39 PM
                              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/05 12:45 AM
                                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Ronald Maas2019/11/05 05:41 PM
                                  RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anonymou52019/11/06 12:24 AM
                                    The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesRonald Maas2019/11/06 12:41 AM
                                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/06 01:12 AM
                                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/06 02:22 AM
                                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesAdrian2019/11/06 02:44 AM
                                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesAdrian2019/11/06 02:50 AM
                                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnone2019/11/06 03:08 AM
                                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesAdrian2019/11/06 07:24 AM
                                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesdmcq2019/11/06 05:53 AM
                                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesnoko2019/11/06 11:07 AM
                                        The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesRonald Maas2019/11/07 09:35 AM
                              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesj2019/11/05 01:43 AM
                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesdmcq2019/11/04 05:39 PM
                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesMaynard Handley2019/11/04 06:25 PM
                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesAnon2019/11/04 08:31 AM
                        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Ronal2019/11/04 08:59 AM
          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8dmcq2019/11/02 03:00 PM
          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8lockederboss2019/11/03 09:37 AM
          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8j2019/11/03 03:29 PM
            RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon2019/11/03 10:00 PM
              RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8j2019/11/04 12:30 AM
                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/04 02:45 AM
                  RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8none2019/11/04 03:59 AM
                    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon2019/11/04 05:22 AM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Adrian2019/11/04 06:10 AM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/04 11:03 AM
                        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Linus Torvalds2019/11/04 11:27 AM
                          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/04 12:07 PM
                          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/04 01:22 PM
                            RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Linus Torvalds2019/11/04 03:08 PM
                Flags RegisterDavid Hess2019/11/04 11:05 AM
                  Flags RegisterWilco2019/11/04 02:49 PM
                    Flags RegisterMaynard Handley2019/11/04 07:17 PM
                    Flags RegisterDavid Hess2019/11/05 04:35 PM
                      Flags RegisterWilco2019/11/05 05:54 PM
                        Flags RegisterMegol2019/11/06 06:11 AM
                          Flags RegisterMaynard Handley2019/11/07 02:42 PM
          RISC-V - instruction fusionAnon2019/11/06 06:40 PM
      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/04 10:38 AM
        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/04 10:59 AM
          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/04 11:11 AM
            RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Michael S2019/11/04 11:17 AM
              RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/04 11:54 AM
                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon.12019/11/05 07:17 AM
                  RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Linus Torvalds2019/11/05 12:39 PM
                    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon.12019/11/06 12:19 PM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Doug S2019/11/06 12:47 PM
                        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/06 07:36 PM
                          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Maynard Handley2019/11/06 08:32 PM
                            RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8j2019/11/07 04:33 AM
                          RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8TREZA2019/11/07 01:31 PM
                            RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8David Hess2019/11/08 08:15 PM
                              RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Maynard Handley2019/11/08 09:40 PM
                                RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8none2019/11/09 02:02 AM
                        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8anon.12019/11/06 10:36 PM
                          The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesRonald Maas2019/11/07 12:53 AM
                            Both are excellent ISAs ?Michael S2019/11/07 01:58 AM
                            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesdmcq2019/11/07 05:33 AM
                              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesRonald Maas2019/11/07 08:31 AM
                            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesAdrian2019/11/07 09:38 AM
                              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesGabriele Svelto2019/11/08 02:32 AM
                            The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesanon.12019/11/07 06:39 PM
                              The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesBrett2019/11/07 07:50 PM
                                The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesanon.12019/11/07 10:47 PM
                                  The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesBrett2019/11/08 03:00 PM
                                    The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesMaynard Handley2019/11/08 06:00 PM
                                    The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesDavid Hess2019/11/08 08:28 PM
                                      The RISC-V bitmanip ISA extension has conditional movesanon.12019/11/08 09:14 PM
                      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8G. Boniface2019/11/07 06:59 AM
                        Op fusion and superscalar execution do NOT share same hardwareHeikki Kultala2019/11/07 08:39 AM
                          Op fusion and superscalar execution do NOT share same hardwareRonald Maas2019/11/07 09:29 AM
                            Op fusion and superscalar execution do NOT share same hardwareanon2019/11/07 09:37 AM
                            Op fusion and superscalar execution do NOT share same hardwareWilco2019/11/07 12:41 PM
                            Op fusion and superscalar execution do NOT share same hardwareFoo_2019/11/07 12:42 PM
                              Op fusion and superscalar execution do NOT share same hardwareanon.12019/11/07 11:00 PM
                    RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8wumpus2019/11/06 05:19 PM
              RISC-V - conditional branches are problematic tooWilco2019/11/04 02:31 PM
                reg-reg branchesMichael S2019/11/06 02:37 AM
                  reg-reg branchesWilco2019/11/07 05:55 PM
      RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Montaray Jack2019/11/08 02:38 AM
        RISC-V - incompetitive instruction set compared to ARMv8Gabriele Svelto2019/11/08 07:03 AM
  Risc-V getting real?Konrad Schwarz2019/11/20 08:12 AM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell avocado?