ARM Mac Performance figures

By: nobody in particular (nobody.delete@this.nowhe.re), June 23, 2020 1:30 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
pgerassi (pgerassi2012.delete@this.wi.rr.com) on June 23, 2020 10:09 am wrote:
> Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on June 22, 2020 7:55 pm wrote:
> > pgerassi (pgerassi2012.delete@this.wi.rr.com) on June 22, 2020 5:29 pm wrote:
> > > Chester (lamchester.delete@this.gmail.com) on June 22, 2020 1:32 pm wrote:
> > > > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on June 22, 2020 11:44 am wrote:
> > > > > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on June 22, 2020 11:26 am wrote:
> > > > > > It's real!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Well we saw something of how x86 apps will work.
> > > > > Any comments from the various people making strong claims regarding this?
> > > > > Of particular interest was (img)
> > > >
> > > > We haven't seen much in terms of CPU performance. Several comments:

    > > > >
  • Showing off Word/Excel/Powerpoint is strange. Those apps run fine on an underclocked Atom

  • > > > >
  • DNG files in Lightroom - weird they didn't show exporting/raw conversion. Getting
    > > > > low res previews of effects was very fast on 2013-era mobile Haswell. Maybe they didn't
    > > > > show export because FPU performance is one of Intel's strengths (2x256-bit AVX execution
    > > > > units), and processing high res images really takes advantage of that.

  • > > > >
  • Maya - I don't have Maya, but Blender's workspace view is a very light GPU load. I suspect it's the
    > > > > same for Maya. If they were confident in CPU performance, they'd show a CPU render. They did not.

  • > > > >
  • Playback of multiple 4K streams - just means their GPU has a
    > > > > modern video engine. Intel's iGPUs could do this years ago

  • > > > >
  • Tomb Raider - they ran through a small, isolated area without any enemies/allies
    > > > > present. I expect the weakest CPUs to have no trouble with that.

  • > > > >

> > >
> > > I looked into Apple GPU performance. What they don't tell people is that their GPU renders using 16 bit
> > > integers versus AMD/NV/Intel which use 32 bit floating point. That is much easier for their GPU. Its
> > > like comparing ping pong balls versus basketballs. Manipulating the latter is a lot more work. And that
> > > is how they look more efficient or faster on these lightweight benchmarks on iPads/phones and such.
> > >
> > > When they have to do rendering for games without losing fidelity, they are much slower. Their
> > > top end A12Z iGPU in an iPad get 27FPS on a 1080p AAA Game like Tomb Raider while a 6CU GCN 2700U
> > > APU gets 52FPS. This comparison using Geekbench graphics says the A12Z has 1.8 times the 2700U
> > > score. And of course there is the "we do better against a 2 year old part with our brand new
> > > part" problem. A14 will need to compete with Ryzen 5xxxU APUs and not Ryzen 2700U APUs.
> > >
> > > So lets wait for the 3rd party benchmarks doing real work or a facsimile thereof.
> > >
> >
> > I'm sorry but WTF are you talking about? "GPU renders using 16 bit integers"
> > ??? Do you mean half's (ie 16 bit FLOATs)? Of course Apple GPUs use these
> > for some (not all) purposes, just like any modern GPU from nV or ATI.
> >
> > As for Tomb Raider perhaps you can tell us EXACTLY what game you are talking about. There
> > are multiple games called something or other to do with Tomb Raider, some of which date from
> > seven years ago. I've no idea which you mean, if you're even comparing the same two things,
> > or if the iPad version you are running is even using Metal as opposed to OpenGL.
>
> You have no right calling on proof, who hand waves continuously and never gives
> proof. And yes for Geekbench graphics tests, Apples GPU renders using 16 bit
> integers and not 32 bit SP floating point like AMD, Nvidia, or Intel.
>
> BTW there are AAA games that run on ARM. Civ6 is one that does run on Android which is ARM. However
> they don't run it anywhere near as fast graphics wise as a low end AMD64 laptop. Like my many year
> old Lenovo Idea 300 which is a A10-8700 with 6CUs at 800MHz and a single channel 8GB DDR3-1333.
> The Apple GPU performance article said the 2700U had 6CUs, but the 2300U is the one with 6CUs at
> 1100MHz and likely dual channel 2x4GB DDR4-2666. The 2700U has 10CUs at 1300MHz. The current one
> for comparison is the 4700U with 7CUs at 1600MHz in the same 12-27W cTDP envelope.
>
> Pete

You realize Apple's graphics are Apple-developed and totally different from the GPUs in any Android system, yes?

Also, care to offer some evidence for your claim of using 16-bit ints?
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TopicPosted ByDate
Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Maynard Handley2020/06/22 11:26 AM
  Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Maynard Handley2020/06/22 11:44 AM
    Woo Hoo!!!!!!!hobold2020/06/22 12:15 PM
    ARM Mac Performance figuresChester2020/06/22 01:32 PM
      ARM Mac Performance figuresMaynard Handley2020/06/22 02:25 PM
        ARM Mac Performance figuresChester2020/06/22 02:45 PM
        ARM Mac Performance figuresAnne O. Nymous2020/06/22 02:48 PM
          ARM Mac Performance figuresanon2020/06/22 05:55 PM
            ARM Mac Performance figuresDoug S2020/06/22 06:22 PM
              ARM Mac Performance figuresMaynard Handley2020/06/22 07:39 PM
                Why are you yelling at someone who agrees with you? (NT)nobody in particular2020/06/22 08:41 PM
                  Why are you yelling at someone who agrees with you?anon2020/06/22 10:55 PM
                  Why are you yelling at someone who agrees with you?Maynard Handley2020/06/22 11:48 PM
                    Why are you yelling at someone who agrees with you?Doug S2020/06/23 02:00 AM
                      Why are you yelling at someone who agrees with you?Maynard Handley2020/06/23 09:04 AM
                      Why are you yelling at someone who agrees with you?Maynard Handley2020/06/23 10:28 AM
                ARM Mac Performance figuresAnne O. Nymous2020/06/23 01:45 AM
        I agree!David Kanter2020/06/22 06:55 PM
          Apple already answered...Jouni Osmala2020/06/23 01:48 AM
            "Performs like desktop" is so vague that it doesn't mean anything. (NT)Foo_2020/06/23 01:56 AM
              Consumes power like Laptop is less vague :D Jouni Osmala2020/06/23 02:26 AM
                Consumes power like Laptop is less vague :D Doug S2020/06/23 02:28 AM
                Consumes power like Laptop is less vague :D Foo_2020/06/23 04:59 AM
            Apple already answered...Doug S2020/06/23 02:27 AM
      ARM Mac Performance figurespgerassi2020/06/22 05:29 PM
        ARM Mac Performance figuresnobody in particular2020/06/22 05:55 PM
        ARM Mac Performance figuresMaynard Handley2020/06/22 07:55 PM
          ARM Mac Performance figurespgerassi2020/06/23 10:09 AM
            ARM Mac Performance figuresnobody in particular2020/06/23 01:30 PM
              ARM Mac Performance figurespgerassi2020/06/23 04:06 PM
                ARM Mac Performance figuresanon2020/06/23 05:26 PM
                ARM Mac Performance figuresnobody in particular2020/06/23 05:27 PM
                  ARM Mac Performance figurespgerassi2020/06/24 07:49 AM
                    ARM Mac Performance figuresFoo_2020/06/24 11:37 AM
                ARM Mac Performance figuresvvid2020/06/23 05:51 PM
                  ARM Mac Performance figurespgerassi2020/06/24 08:48 AM
                    ARM Mac Performance figuresJouni Osmala2020/06/24 10:23 AM
                    ARM Mac Performance figuresvvid2020/06/24 01:52 PM
                    ARM Mac Performance figuresanon2020/06/24 02:22 PM
      ARM Mac Performance figuresRonald Maas2020/06/22 11:52 PM
    "translated at install time"Doug S2020/06/22 03:47 PM
      They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install time (NT)anon2020/06/22 04:22 PM
        They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeDoug S2020/06/22 06:14 PM
          They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeMark Roulo2020/06/22 07:38 PM
            They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeDoug S2020/06/23 02:04 AM
              They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeMark Roulo2020/06/23 08:36 AM
          They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeMaynard Handley2020/06/22 08:04 PM
            They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timenobody in particular2020/06/22 08:44 PM
              They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeMaynard Handley2020/06/22 11:55 PM
              They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeAnne O. Nymous2020/06/23 01:51 AM
              They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timegallier22020/06/23 02:37 AM
          They're doing hybrid: both JIT/dynamic and install timeNoSpammer2020/06/23 04:04 AM
  Additional detailsnobody in particular2020/06/22 11:53 AM
    Additional detailsjuanrga2020/06/22 12:06 PM
      Additional detailsMaynard Handley2020/06/22 12:13 PM
    Additional detailsBeastian2020/06/22 12:20 PM
    Additional detailsRonald Maas2020/06/22 10:36 PM
      Additional detailsanon22020/06/22 11:29 PM
      Additional detailsMaynard Handley2020/06/22 11:57 PM
        Additional detailsRonald Maas2020/06/23 12:10 AM
        BT remains hard and unsolved in generalhobold2020/06/23 01:07 AM
          BT remains hard and unsolved in generalAnne O. Nymous2020/06/23 01:58 AM
            BT remains hard and unsolved in generalDoug S2020/06/23 02:20 AM
              BT remains hard and unsolved in generalNoSpammer2020/06/23 03:45 AM
                BT remains hard and unsolved in generalDoug S2020/06/23 04:04 AM
                BT remains hard and unsolved in generalMaynard Handley2020/06/23 09:46 AM
              BT remains hard and unsolved in generaldmcq2020/06/23 04:00 AM
                BT remains hard and unsolved in generalDoug S2020/06/23 04:13 AM
                  BT remains hard and unsolved in generalRichard S2020/06/23 05:25 AM
                    BT remains hard and unsolved in generalDoug S2020/06/23 08:41 AM
              BT remains hard and unsolved in generalMaynard Handley2020/06/23 09:20 AM
          BT remains hard and unsolved in generalMaynard Handley2020/06/23 09:14 AM
            they are not actually transitioninghobold2020/06/24 03:33 AM
              they are not actually transitioningnobody in particular2020/06/24 04:22 AM
              they are not actually transitioningAnne O. Nymous2020/06/24 04:41 AM
                When the facts change...James2020/06/24 08:15 AM
                  When the facts change (Apple Silicon in 2006????)wumpus2020/06/25 10:51 AM
                    When the facts change (Apple Silicon in 2006????)Dummond D. Slow2020/06/25 03:33 PM
                      When the facts change (Apple Silicon in 2006????)Nikdo2020/06/25 06:39 PM
                        When the facts change (Apple Silicon in 2006????)wumpus2020/06/26 06:43 AM
                          PA-Semi purchase was an acqui-hireMark Roulo2020/06/26 06:56 AM
                            PA-Semi purchase was an acqui-hireUngo2020/06/26 10:47 PM
                they are not actually adding value?Daniel B2020/06/25 07:36 AM
                  they are not actually adding value?Ricardo B2020/06/25 12:11 PM
              they are not actually transitioningDoug S2020/06/24 10:08 AM
          BT remains hard and unsolved in generalUngo2020/06/24 01:49 AM
  Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Linus Torvalds2020/06/22 12:46 PM
    Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Linus Torvalds2020/06/22 12:55 PM
      Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Robert David Graham2020/06/22 01:34 PM
        Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Linus Torvalds2020/06/22 02:46 PM
      Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Doug S2020/06/22 03:50 PM
    Woo Hoo!!!!!!!Maynard Handley2020/06/22 01:28 PM
    Compaq AlphaYuhong Bao2020/06/22 06:08 PM
  How long before they unify OS X and iOS?anonymous22020/06/22 12:53 PM
    How long before they unify OS X and iOS?nobody in particular2020/06/22 12:55 PM
      How long before they unify OS X and iOS?anonymous22020/06/22 01:18 PM
        How long before they unify OS X and iOS?Doug S2020/06/23 02:36 AM
      How long before they unify OS X and iOS?Andrew Clough2020/06/22 05:00 PM
    How long before they unify OS X and iOS?Maynard Handley2020/06/22 01:31 PM
    How long before they unify OS X and iOS?James2020/06/23 02:19 AM
  Any idea which process? 7nm+ ? (NT)anonymous22020/06/22 02:26 PM
    Any idea which process? 7nm+ ?Maynard Handley2020/06/22 02:52 PM
  No point in getting Intel based Macsanonymous22020/06/23 05:08 PM
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