nobody in particular (nobody.delete@this.nowhe.re) on June 23, 2020 1:30 pm wrote:
> pgerassi (pgerassi2012.delete@this.wi.rr.com) on June 23, 2020 10:09 am wrote:
> > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on June 22, 2020 7:55 pm wrote:
> > > pgerassi (pgerassi2012.delete@this.wi.rr.com) on June 22, 2020 5:29 pm wrote:
> > > > Chester (lamchester.delete@this.gmail.com) on June 22, 2020 1:32 pm wrote:
> > > > > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on June 22, 2020 11:44 am wrote:
> > > > > > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on June 22, 2020 11:26 am wrote:
> > > > > > > It's real!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well we saw something of how x86 apps will work.
> > > > > > Any comments from the various people making strong claims regarding this?
> > > > > > Of particular interest was (img)
> > > > >
> > > > > We haven't seen much in terms of CPU performance. Several comments:

> > > > >
• Showing off Word/Excel/Powerpoint is strange. Those apps run fine on an underclocked Atom

> > > > >
• DNG files in Lightroom - weird they didn't show exporting/raw conversion. Getting
  > > > > > low res previews of effects was very fast on 2013-era mobile Haswell. Maybe they didn't
  > > > > > show export because FPU performance is one of Intel's strengths (2x256-bit AVX execution
  > > > > > units), and processing high res images really takes advantage of that.

> > > > >
• Maya - I don't have Maya, but Blender's workspace view is a very light GPU load. I suspect it's the
  > > > > > same for Maya. If they were confident in CPU performance, they'd show a CPU render. They did not.

> > > > >
• Playback of multiple 4K streams - just means their GPU has a
  > > > > > modern video engine. Intel's iGPUs could do this years ago

> > > > >
• Tomb Raider - they ran through a small, isolated area without any enemies/allies
  > > > > > present. I expect the weakest CPUs to have no trouble with that.

> > > > >

> > > >
> > > > I looked into Apple GPU performance. What they don't tell people is that their GPU renders using 16 bit
> > > > integers versus AMD/NV/Intel which use 32 bit floating point. That is much easier for their GPU. Its
> > > > like comparing ping pong balls versus basketballs. Manipulating the latter is a lot more work. And that
> > > > is how they look more efficient or faster on these lightweight benchmarks on iPads/phones and such.
> > > >
> > > > When they have to do rendering for games without losing fidelity, they are much slower. Their
> > > > top end A12Z iGPU in an iPad get 27FPS on a 1080p AAA Game like Tomb Raider while a 6CU GCN 2700U
> > > > APU gets 52FPS. This comparison using Geekbench graphics says the A12Z has 1.8 times the 2700U
> > > > score. And of course there is the "we do better against a 2 year old part with our brand new
> > > > part" problem. A14 will need to compete with Ryzen 5xxxU APUs and not Ryzen 2700U APUs.
> > > >
> > > > So lets wait for the 3rd party benchmarks doing real work or a facsimile thereof.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm sorry but WTF are you talking about? "GPU renders using 16 bit integers"
> > > ??? Do you mean half's (ie 16 bit FLOATs)? Of course Apple GPUs use these
> > > for some (not all) purposes, just like any modern GPU from nV or ATI.
> > >
> > > As for Tomb Raider perhaps you can tell us EXACTLY what game you are talking about. There
> > > are multiple games called something or other to do with Tomb Raider, some of which date from
> > > seven years ago. I've no idea which you mean, if you're even comparing the same two things,
> > > or if the iPad version you are running is even using Metal as opposed to OpenGL.
> >
> > You have no right calling on proof, who hand waves continuously and never gives
> > proof. And yes for Geekbench graphics tests, Apples GPU renders using 16 bit
> > integers and not 32 bit SP floating point like AMD, Nvidia, or Intel.
> >
> > BTW there are AAA games that run on ARM. Civ6 is one that does run on Android which is ARM. However
> > they don't run it anywhere near as fast graphics wise as a low end AMD64 laptop. Like my many year
> > old Lenovo Idea 300 which is a A10-8700 with 6CUs at 800MHz and a single channel 8GB DDR3-1333.
> > The Apple GPU performance article said the 2700U had 6CUs, but the 2300U is the one with 6CUs at
> > 1100MHz and likely dual channel 2x4GB DDR4-2666. The 2700U has 10CUs at 1300MHz. The current one
> > for comparison is the 4700U with 7CUs at 1600MHz in the same 12-27W cTDP envelope.
> >
> > Pete
>
> You realize Apple's graphics are Apple-developed and totally
> different from the GPUs in any Android system, yes?

Doesn't matter as the performance of Apple tested in that article was far lower than even standard AMD iGPUs of more than a few generations ago. Even if the others ARM GPUs are 2-5 times slower than that. For years Intel iGPUs were laughed at because they either pulled shenanigans to look faster or were too slow.
>
> Also, care to offer some evidence for your claim of using 16-bit ints?

It seems like the Apple performance article I read was wrong in certain details. However Apple GPU uses 16 bit floating point instead of others using 32 bit SP Floats:

https://www.realworldtech.com/apple-custom-gpu/

This of course would bite Apple in the ass, if image quality standards were applied as they are and were to AMD, nVidia, and Intel GPUs. Besides Apple renders Civ6 at 1/4 the resolution than it displays on the iPad Pro by default.

As far as more and more information comes out, Apple gives a rats ass to the needs of its customers. And sooner or later, it will cost them dearly.

Pete