File Systems and VC Problems

By: Rob Thorpe (noone.delete@this.nowhere.com), July 15, 2020 7:24 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on July 14, 2020 12:40 pm wrote:
> Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org) on July 14, 2020 9:02 am wrote:
> > Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 14, 2020 2:34 am wrote:
> > >
> > > I too would like to know what Apple function call Linus is complaining about.
> >
> > Every single pathname function is broken shit.
> >
> > We're not talking some odd unusual specialized library function. We're talking "open()". Heard of it?
> >
> > You pass in one string to create a filename, and OS X will create the
> > file with another name and corrupt it. And do it badly at that.
> >
> > I'm not talking "Oh, you gave us badly formed input so we fixed it for you". No,
> > I'm talking "you gave us proper pathnames, and we completely screwed it up".
> >
> > Seriously. It's unbelievable garbage. Even MS got that part right, and that's saying
> > something considering they originally used UCS2 (then upgraded to UTF-16, and now finally
> > seem to have made UTF-8 the first-rate format) for their pathname interfaces.
> >
> > But it's Apple, so you can now commence your daily denial
> > routine about how what they do is right and proper.
> >
> > Hint: it isn't.
> >
> > And it results in real and present issues. Things like "oh, you have a sane cross-system
> > SCM that keeps track of the names in your directory. But they change from what they were
> > fed, and in insane and incorrect ways, so when you do 'readdir()' you get something else
> > back than what you thought, and you have to convert it back to the sane format".
> >
> > It is literally so unbelievably broken, that it breaks even trivial Latin1 filename encodings,
> > and if you ignore just plain ASCII, that's the simplest UTF-8 model there is.
> >
> > And yet Apple got even that one wrong.
> >
> > That is some truly historically incredibly bad crap. Yes, the computer industry has
> > a long and storied history of not understanding complex character sets, but what Apple
> > did approaches EBCDIC level confusion, just in a slightly more modern guise.
> >
> > Because when they change your data under you, they don't even do it in the proper sane
> > ways that you can defend as "well, we cleaned it up for you". Oh, no. Not even close.
> >
> > No, they literally picked the most shit-for-brains normal form you can pick, and said "we will screw
> > absolutely everybody over, because we think this makes it slightly easier to do icase-compares".
> >
> > Btw, they were wrong even about that "slightly easier".
> > They could easily have done their broken normalization
> > internally without ever exposing the temporary values they used. The way you should. But no. They
> > said "we are doing this anyway because we need to do it internally because we made some other fundamental
> > design mistakes, so we will now just screw everybody else over for it too".
> >
> > They were just plain incompetent, and it's actually sad how much apologia you can find over it.
> >
> > Linus
>
> Let's ask some simpler questions.
>
> Are you against the concept of filename normalization generically? So you don't just want no normalization
> of capitalization, you want name+' to be treated a separate filename from namé ?
>
> Or are you asserting that normalization is fine, but you disagree
> with some detail of what Apple considers to be normalization?
>
> Or are you saying that there are objective bugs (not different choices as to how to
> solve this problem, but objective bugs) in Apple's filename normalization code.
>
>
> So far all you have told us is that Apple is doing something absolutely awful and terrible and poopy-headed,
> without telling us anything about what it is. Given that Apple ships their OS's to a wide variety
> of countries, and supports a wide variety of languages, perhaps you can understand why some of us
> are somewhat skeptical that this represents a real bug (or even a bad choice) as opposed to simply
> "Apple didn't make the set of choices that would be maximally convenient for Linux".

I sympathize with the problem Linus has had.

The interface between filesystems and version-control is difficult. I remember a problem with this about 20 years ago.

I was working for a small company, we were using CVS for version control. There were only two or three people doing programming and it was mostly on Windows. We decided to use CVS because the alternatives were either very new or expensive proprietary products. The system administrator was a Linux nut. So, the CVS server ran on a Linux box. He also didn't trust NTFS. So, all the Windows PCs had FAT drives. It turns out this created a problem.

I went to work one day, I was tired because the clocks had changed the day before. When I got there I found that CVS had marked all of my files changed. It had marked that in every sandbox for every project. I was baffled. It turned out the problem was the change in daylight-savings-time. NTFS, Linux and *nix filesystems all use UTC dates. But, FAT doesn't, it uses the date-and-timezone set on that PC. That changes every time daylight-savings-time ends or starts. As a result, all file creation times were moving by an hour one way or the other twice a year relative to the time recorded on the Linux server. That was enough to cause CVS to mark everything as changed.

Humans don't look at all these little bits of information in the filesystem. It never occurred to me that there were any complications, but when I actually checked it was clear. "Little" problems like this can be huge problems for software. Software is more likely to rely on all these little details that are stored along with files. The problem Linus describes is a specific instance of a more general problem.



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TopicPosted ByDate
Alder Lake and AVX-512me2020/07/11 07:02 AM
  Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 11:41 AM
    informative (NT)blue2020/07/11 12:40 PM
    grumpyMichael S2020/07/11 12:51 PM
      grumpyme2020/07/11 01:27 PM
    area and power cost of AVX-512Michael S2020/07/11 12:58 PM
      area and power cost of AVX-512Anon2020/07/11 04:35 PM
        area and power cost of AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 04:16 AM
          area and power cost of AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/12 09:13 AM
      area and power cost of AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 07:19 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/11 02:02 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Ungo2020/07/11 05:28 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/11 10:16 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 06:51 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 01:48 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 03:07 PM
          HDRAnon32020/07/12 03:42 PM
            HDR10 in Kaby Lake?David Kanter2020/07/12 05:09 PM
              HDR10 in Kaby Lake?Maynard Handley2020/07/12 06:13 PM
                Thanks for the link (NT)David Kanter2020/07/12 06:43 PM
              HDR10 in Kaby Lake?Anon32020/07/13 01:36 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Dummond D. Slow2020/07/12 03:00 PM
        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?m2020/07/23 12:10 PM
          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 12:53 PM
            AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Paul A. Clayton2020/07/23 06:32 PM
              AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 06:50 PM
                AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Paul A. Clayton2020/07/23 07:45 PM
                  AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 08:15 PM
                    AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/24 04:44 AM
                      AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Gabriele Svelto2020/07/24 02:56 PM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jouni Osmala2020/07/24 09:22 PM
                          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/25 01:32 AM
                      AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Eugene Nalimov2020/07/25 05:56 PM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/26 01:28 AM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Gabriele Svelto2020/07/26 02:22 PM
                          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/27 07:00 AM
          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?-.-2020/07/23 06:32 PM
            AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Travis Downs2020/07/24 05:01 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 04:45 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Chester2020/07/11 05:26 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 06:22 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 02:02 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/13 09:01 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 06:54 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 08:01 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512N Owen2020/07/12 12:37 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:48 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 07:13 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/13 09:09 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 11:42 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/11 11:49 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:53 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 07:03 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Veedrac2020/07/11 07:43 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 01:31 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Veedrac2020/07/12 04:01 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 03:26 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Anon32020/07/12 04:07 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 05:39 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Veedrac2020/07/12 04:21 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 05:33 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Veedrac2020/07/12 05:54 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 06:20 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512David Hess2020/07/12 07:32 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 08:41 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/13 04:02 AM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/13 07:25 PM
                    PentiumMMX vs Transmeta's VLIW in hindsight2020/07/19 06:16 AM
                      PentiumMMX vs Transmeta's VLIW in hindsightMaynard Handley2020/07/19 10:47 AM
                      PentiumMMX vs Transmeta's VLIW in hindsightanon22020/07/19 03:24 PM
                      VLIW, OOO, Pairing, and FusionChester2020/07/19 10:16 PM
                        Poulson was in-order (NT)anon22020/07/20 12:20 AM
                        VLIW, OOO, Pairing, and FusionMichael S2020/07/20 12:48 AM
                        Itanium is NOT VLIWHeikki Kultala2020/07/20 02:27 PM
                          Itanium is NOT VLIWAdrian2020/07/20 11:03 PM
                            Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?Heikki Kultala2020/07/21 03:38 AM
                              Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?anon22020/07/21 05:03 AM
                                Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?dmcq2020/07/21 03:27 PM
                              Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?j2020/07/21 08:54 AM
                                Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?Tim McCaffrey2020/07/21 10:30 AM
                              Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?Linus Torvalds2020/07/21 09:13 AM
                                Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureHeikki Kultala2020/07/22 12:31 PM
                                  Turn that on its head?Ray2020/07/22 12:49 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?Anon2020/07/22 01:53 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?Maynard Handley2020/07/22 02:37 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?anon22020/07/22 03:32 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?anon32020/07/22 04:45 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?Heikki Kultala2020/07/23 02:53 AM
                                      Turn that on its head?Anon2020/07/23 10:20 AM
                                        Turn that on its head?Heikki Kultala2020/07/23 11:21 AM
                                          Turn that on its head?Brett2020/07/23 03:26 PM
                                            Turn that on its head?Brett2020/07/24 04:22 AM
                                      Bundling OOO entries does this implicitlyDavid Kanter2020/07/23 10:56 AM
                                      Turn that on its head?anon2020/07/23 11:49 AM
                                  Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureMaynard Handley2020/07/22 02:29 PM
                                  Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architecturewumpus2020/07/22 03:16 PM
                                    Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureDoug S2020/07/22 10:37 PM
                                      what Intel would have doneMichael S2020/07/23 12:46 AM
                                        what Intel would have doneDoug S2020/07/23 09:52 AM
                                        what Intel would have doneAnon2020/07/23 10:25 AM
                                          what Intel would have doneMichael S2020/07/23 11:23 AM
                                            what Intel would have doneMontaray Jack2020/07/23 06:08 PM
                                    Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureHeikki Kultala2020/07/22 11:47 PM
                                      Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architecturewumpus2020/07/23 01:46 PM
                                  Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureMichael S2020/07/23 12:56 AM
                                    Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureHeikki Kultala2020/07/23 02:44 AM
                          thanksChester2020/07/24 03:50 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 07:46 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512never_released2020/07/11 08:54 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 02:25 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 01:36 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/12 12:01 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 02:41 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512rwessel2020/07/12 10:17 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/08/18 03:24 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/08/18 11:04 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512Geoff Langdale2020/07/11 07:49 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512anon2020/07/11 08:12 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 08:33 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 03:00 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jukka Larja2020/07/12 08:51 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/12 10:30 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Jukka Larja2020/07/13 07:43 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Montaray Jack2020/07/23 07:20 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Jukka Larja2020/07/24 04:57 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/12 11:35 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 12:01 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 12:15 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512anonymou52020/07/12 01:50 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 02:31 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512anonymou52020/07/12 03:09 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 04:25 PM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512anonymou52020/07/12 08:34 PM
                          Alder Lake and AVX-512Jose2020/07/13 01:35 AM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512gallier22020/07/13 02:11 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512gallier22020/07/13 02:01 AM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/13 11:06 AM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/13 12:11 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Brett2020/07/14 02:34 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/14 09:02 AM
                          Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/14 12:40 PM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/14 12:48 PM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/15 01:37 AM
                              OS X file names normalizationMichael S2020/07/15 02:26 AM
                                OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/15 04:16 AM
                                  OS X file names normalizationMichael S2020/07/15 10:51 AM
                                    OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/15 12:27 PM
                                OS X file names normalizationDoug S2020/07/15 10:46 AM
                                  OS X file names normalizationMichael S2020/07/15 11:05 AM
                                    OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/15 12:58 PM
                                      OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/15 02:21 PM
                                      OS X file names normalizationgallier22020/07/15 11:57 PM
                                    OS X file names normalizationgallier22020/07/15 11:44 PM
                                  OS X file names normalizationRob Thorpe2020/07/15 11:23 AM
                                    OS X file names normalizationDoug S2020/07/15 01:32 PM
                                      OS X file names normalizationMaynard Handley2020/07/15 05:20 PM
                                        OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/15 08:37 PM
                                          OS X file names normalizationAnon32020/07/16 01:43 PM
                                            OS X file names normalizationDoug S2020/07/16 03:38 PM
                                              OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/17 12:21 AM
                                                OS X file names normalizationAnon32020/07/17 02:15 AM
                                                  OS X file names normalizationJukka Larja2020/07/17 06:40 AM
                                                OS X file names normalizationgallier22020/07/17 03:19 AM
                                                  OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/17 09:41 AM
                                                    OS X file names normalizationDummond D. Slow2020/07/17 09:54 AM
                                                      OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/17 10:16 AM
                                                      OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/18 06:12 AM
                                              OS X file names normalizationAnon32020/07/17 02:04 AM
                                                OS X file names normalizationDoug S2020/07/17 10:15 AM
                              Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/15 10:32 AM
                            File Systems and VC ProblemsRob Thorpe2020/07/15 07:24 AM
                    vectorization of utf8Robert David Graham2020/07/13 02:36 PM
                      vectorization of utf8anon22020/07/13 05:07 PM
                        vectorization of utf8Robert David Graham2020/07/13 08:36 PM
                          vectorization of utf8anon22020/07/13 11:23 PM
                        vectorization of utf8Maynard Handley2020/07/13 10:46 PM
                      vectorization of utf8Gabriele Svelto2020/07/15 03:27 AM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512gallier22020/07/14 01:13 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/12 01:29 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 02:08 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/12 06:26 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/12 07:11 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/12 07:43 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Jukka Larja2020/07/13 08:38 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 10:10 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/13 11:02 AM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 11:22 AM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/13 12:10 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 04:03 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Jukka Larja2020/07/14 06:53 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 08:34 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Brett2020/07/11 09:02 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512David Hess2020/07/13 12:36 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512anonymou52020/07/13 01:01 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Brett2020/07/13 04:19 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Geert2020/07/11 09:36 PM
          AMD's FPUChester2020/07/12 02:28 AM
            Is 3|5 lower than 4?Michael S2020/07/12 03:59 AM
              Is 3|5 lower than 4?Chester2020/07/12 05:54 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Geoff Langdale2020/07/11 11:45 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512me2020/07/12 03:44 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 04:09 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 11:35 AM
            ~80% of details are wrong. So what one can expect from conclusions? :( (NT)Michael S2020/07/12 11:57 AM
              ~80% of details are wrong. So what one can expect from conclusions? :(anonymous22020/07/12 12:50 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/12 12:25 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 12:37 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/12 12:43 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512me2020/07/12 01:32 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/12 08:51 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512UnmaskedUnderflow2020/07/12 12:33 PM
            AVX-512 vs SVE2-.-2020/07/12 06:22 PM
              AVX-512 vs SVE2noko2020/07/13 12:12 AM
                AVX-512 vs SVE2-.-2020/07/13 04:00 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Geoff Langdale2020/07/12 08:18 PM
              Could you please stop top-posting (NT)Jukka Larja2020/07/13 08:45 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 01:00 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Spiteful Sprites2020/07/13 04:59 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/13 09:12 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Spiteful Sprites2020/07/13 04:21 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Jouni Osmala2020/07/14 02:55 AM
                  RISC-V & commercial support (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 01:11 AM
                    RISC-V & commercial support (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 01:13 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/13 11:10 AM
            AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Romain Dolbeau2020/07/14 10:09 AM
              AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)anon2020/07/14 10:53 AM
                AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Romain Dolbeau2020/07/14 11:27 AM
                  AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Maynard Handley2020/07/14 12:52 PM
                  AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Doug S2020/07/14 01:43 PM
                  AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)anon2020/07/14 03:01 PM
              AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Linus Torvalds2020/07/14 12:00 PM
                AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Romain Dolbeau2020/07/14 11:42 PM
                  Configurable cache line size?Doug S2020/07/15 10:56 AM
                    Configurable cache line size?dmcq2020/07/15 03:43 PM
                    Configurable cache line size?Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 11:37 PM
                    Configurable cache line size?NoSpammer2020/07/16 01:27 AM
                    Configurable cache line size?Pixie2020/07/16 10:55 AM
                      Configurable cache line size?Etienne2020/07/17 01:03 AM
                        Configurable cache line size?Hugo Décharnes2020/07/18 02:11 AM
                  Cache line sizeMark Roulo2020/07/15 06:10 PM
                    Cache line sizeanon2020/07/15 06:46 PM
                  AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Gabriele Svelto2020/07/17 02:30 AM
                    AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)dmcq2020/07/17 03:34 AM
                      AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)zArchJon2020/07/17 01:16 PM
            Macro-instructions to the rescue2020/07/24 12:56 PM
              Some fundamentals haven't changedChester2020/07/24 03:59 PM
                Some fundamentals haven't changed2020/07/24 04:24 PM
                  Some fundamentals haven't changeddmcq2020/07/25 07:58 AM
                    Some fundamentals haven't changed2020/07/25 11:05 AM
                    Some fundamentals haven't changedBrett2020/07/25 02:16 PM
                      Some fundamentals haven't changedBrett2020/07/25 02:27 PM
                      What belt is.Heikki Kultala2020/07/26 07:49 AM
                        What belt is.Michael S2020/07/26 10:00 AM
                          What belt is.Brett2020/07/26 11:46 PM
                            What belt is.Michael S2020/07/27 12:52 AM
                              What belt is.Brett2020/07/27 07:25 AM
                                What belt is.Doug S2020/07/27 01:31 PM
                                  What belt is.Andrew Clough2020/07/28 06:11 AM
                                    What belt is.dmcq2020/07/28 08:17 AM
                                      Mill Compiler still MIA?Geoff Langdale2020/07/28 05:04 PM
                                        If they release the compiler, how they will blame the still-in-development compiler for the lacklust (NT)Anon2020/07/28 05:20 PM
                                          If they release the compiler, how they will blame the still-in-development compiler for the lacklustAnon2020/07/28 05:20 PM
                                        Apparently they're busy writing a kernel...Anon2020/07/29 03:03 AM
                                          Apparently they're busy writing a kernel...dmcq2020/07/29 03:39 AM
                        What belt is.2020/07/26 11:44 AM
                          What belt is.anonymous22020/07/26 12:02 PM
                            What belt is.Doug S2020/07/26 03:26 PM
                              What belt is.2020/07/26 04:02 PM
        gooduseruser2020/07/12 10:06 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/11 09:03 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/11 09:07 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512j2020/07/13 12:29 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/13 01:12 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512j2020/07/13 02:58 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/13 04:53 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/14 12:57 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/14 10:26 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/14 12:33 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/14 03:43 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 12:55 AM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 02:19 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 02:34 AM
                          Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 03:03 AM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 09:43 AM
                              Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 09:54 AM
                                Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 11:35 AM
                                  Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 03:18 PM
                                    GV100 + POWER9Michael S2020/07/16 01:17 AM
                                      GV100 + POWER9dmcq2020/07/16 08:58 AM
                                        GV100 + POWER9dmcq2020/07/16 09:10 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 02:48 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512o2020/07/12 03:08 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 11:07 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 11:32 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 11:39 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 12:47 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:18 PM
          x87 crapHeikki Kultala2020/07/12 01:30 PM
            x87 crapMichael S2020/07/12 01:37 PM
              x87 crapHeikki kultala2020/07/12 02:11 PM
                x87 crapMichael S2020/07/12 02:50 PM
                  Sparc and PA-RISC vs pentium FP performanceHeikki Kultala2020/07/13 01:14 AM
                    Sparc and PA-RISC vs pentium FP performanceanonymous22020/07/13 10:48 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/12 03:33 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 04:10 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512David Kanter2020/07/12 05:01 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512anon2020/07/12 05:40 PM
      ~0% of users do much FP outside of GPUs for games (NT)anonymous22020/07/12 05:47 PM
        ~0% of users do much FP outside of GPUs for gamesMaynard Handley2020/07/13 12:26 AM
        not trueChester2020/07/13 12:37 AM
          not trueMichael S2020/07/13 01:29 AM
            not trueChester2020/07/13 01:59 AM
              not trueanonymous22020/07/13 10:32 AM
                not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:30 PM
                  not trueChester2020/07/14 05:47 AM
            not trueDoug S2020/07/13 12:30 PM
              not trueAnon2020/07/13 01:16 PM
                not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:39 PM
              not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:38 PM
          not trueLinus Torvalds2020/07/13 11:27 AM
            not trueDummond D. Slow2020/07/13 02:10 PM
              not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:49 PM
                not trueDummond D. Slow2020/07/13 03:38 PM
            not true (about FP, not avx-512)Chester2020/07/17 10:37 AM
  Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 06:45 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/11 06:57 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/12 04:26 PM
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