Configurable cache line size?

By: Hugo Décharnes (hdecharn.delete@this.outlook.fr), July 18, 2020 2:11 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Maybe then the last level cache line should be the size of the DRAM page (2 Kbytes or multiple of), so that the DRAM chip does not have to do the read-[modify]-write itself of the 2 Kbytes (DRAM cell reading is destructive) - but that changes the DRAM interface, and may increase the used bandwidth. The DRAM content would then be invalid (read once, not refreshed) inside the DRAM chip as long as the data is in the cache, and the cacheline has to be written on eviction even if not modified (does that happens often? Could we encode "memory content useless, no need to update"?). And that would reduce the number of DRAM page updates each times a cacheline is evicted, probably most noticeable on high count core processors (currently no opportunistic update of DRAM page with multiple cachelines while that DRAM page is selected).

For this to work in a system where higher-level caches operate on smaller granules, your last-level one should be inclusive. Indeed, as higher-levels record a subset of this 2KiB granule, if the last-level isn't inclusive, there can be partially-valid and partially-dirty lines. Thus, you still need to RMW DRAM. One way to solve this is to enforce the entire granule to be recorded in higher-levels, through cache stashing (send the rest of the cache-line to the requester through the snoop interface). On a last-level eviction, you probe the directory/snoop-filter, and retrieve the entire granule. This is equivalent–but not identical–to supporting 2KiB granule in higher-levels, though with greater complexity.
If you opt for inclusive last-level cache, there is a serious performance threat. The farther the caches from the cores, the more difficult it becomes to build an efficient replacement policy. While close-to-core caches have deep knowledge of hot lines, a distant L3 has very little. Cores can send activity information to the inclusive L3, but interconnection network's bandwidth will inevitably limit the rate of information even with dedicated channels, and it will consume a lot of power. The last-level has then to update itself with that information while providing fairness in heterogeneous systems. One way to reduce this thread is to build an L3 an order of magnitude bigger that higher-level caches, with high associativity. To minimize high associativity cost, you could implement a skewed- or Cuckoo-cache. However, you'd like to avoid swapping lines in your Cuckoo cache but just the tags, to limit power consumption. Impossible, as multi-parity error could happen in the SRAM-based tag-RAM.
In conclusion, don't do multi-granule cache-lines, at least outside of a core. You could eventually do it in between L1 and private L2, with all the difficulties described above.

Hugo
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  Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 11:41 AM
    informative (NT)blue2020/07/11 12:40 PM
    grumpyMichael S2020/07/11 12:51 PM
      grumpyme2020/07/11 01:27 PM
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      area and power cost of AVX-512Anon2020/07/11 04:35 PM
        area and power cost of AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 04:16 AM
          area and power cost of AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/12 09:13 AM
      area and power cost of AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 07:19 PM
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      Alder Lake and AVX-512Ungo2020/07/11 05:28 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/11 10:16 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 06:51 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 01:48 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 03:07 PM
          HDRAnon32020/07/12 03:42 PM
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              HDR10 in Kaby Lake?Maynard Handley2020/07/12 06:13 PM
                Thanks for the link (NT)David Kanter2020/07/12 06:43 PM
              HDR10 in Kaby Lake?Anon32020/07/13 01:36 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Dummond D. Slow2020/07/12 03:00 PM
        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?m2020/07/23 12:10 PM
          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 12:53 PM
            AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Paul A. Clayton2020/07/23 06:32 PM
              AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 06:50 PM
                AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Paul A. Clayton2020/07/23 07:45 PM
                  AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 08:15 PM
                    AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/24 04:44 AM
                      AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Gabriele Svelto2020/07/24 02:56 PM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jouni Osmala2020/07/24 09:22 PM
                          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/25 01:32 AM
                      AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Eugene Nalimov2020/07/25 05:56 PM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/26 01:28 AM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Gabriele Svelto2020/07/26 02:22 PM
                          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/27 07:00 AM
          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?-.-2020/07/23 06:32 PM
            AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Travis Downs2020/07/24 05:01 PM
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      Alder Lake and AVX-512Chester2020/07/11 05:26 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 06:22 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 02:02 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/13 09:01 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 06:54 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 08:01 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512N Owen2020/07/12 12:37 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:48 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 07:13 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/13 09:09 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 11:42 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/11 11:49 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:53 AM
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            Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 03:26 PM
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                        VLIW, OOO, Pairing, and FusionMichael S2020/07/20 12:48 AM
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                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 04:25 PM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512anonymou52020/07/12 08:34 PM
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                  Alder Lake and AVX-512gallier22020/07/13 02:11 AM
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                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/13 12:11 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Brett2020/07/14 02:34 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/14 09:02 AM
                          Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/14 12:40 PM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/14 12:48 PM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/15 01:37 AM
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                                OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/15 04:16 AM
                                  OS X file names normalizationMichael S2020/07/15 10:51 AM
                                    OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/15 12:27 PM
                                OS X file names normalizationDoug S2020/07/15 10:46 AM
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                                      OS X file names normalizationMaynard Handley2020/07/15 05:20 PM
                                        OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/15 08:37 PM
                                          OS X file names normalizationAnon32020/07/16 01:43 PM
                                            OS X file names normalizationDoug S2020/07/16 03:38 PM
                                              OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/17 12:21 AM
                                                OS X file names normalizationAnon32020/07/17 02:15 AM
                                                  OS X file names normalizationJukka Larja2020/07/17 06:40 AM
                                                OS X file names normalizationgallier22020/07/17 03:19 AM
                                                  OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/17 09:41 AM
                                                    OS X file names normalizationDummond D. Slow2020/07/17 09:54 AM
                                                      OS X file names normalizationLinus Torvalds2020/07/17 10:16 AM
                                                      OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/18 06:12 AM
                                              OS X file names normalizationAnon32020/07/17 02:04 AM
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                Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 02:08 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/12 06:26 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/12 07:11 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/12 07:43 PM
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              Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 10:10 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/13 11:02 AM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 11:22 AM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/13 12:10 PM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 04:03 PM
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          Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 04:09 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 11:35 AM
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              ~80% of details are wrong. So what one can expect from conclusions? :(anonymous22020/07/12 12:50 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/12 12:25 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 12:37 PM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/12 12:43 PM
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              Alder Lake and AVX-512Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 01:00 AM
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                    RISC-V & commercial support (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 01:13 AM
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              AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)anon2020/07/14 10:53 AM
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                    Configurable cache line size?dmcq2020/07/15 03:43 PM
                    Configurable cache line size?Romain Dolbeau2020/07/15 11:37 PM
                    Configurable cache line size?NoSpammer2020/07/16 01:27 AM
                    Configurable cache line size?Pixie2020/07/16 10:55 AM
                      Configurable cache line size?Etienne2020/07/17 01:03 AM
                        Configurable cache line size?Hugo Décharnes2020/07/18 02:11 AM
                  Cache line sizeMark Roulo2020/07/15 06:10 PM
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                      AVX-512/SVE & HPC (was: Alder Lake and AVX-512)zArchJon2020/07/17 01:16 PM
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                Some fundamentals haven't changed2020/07/24 04:24 PM
                  Some fundamentals haven't changeddmcq2020/07/25 07:58 AM
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                                        If they release the compiler, how they will blame the still-in-development compiler for the lacklust (NT)Anon2020/07/28 05:20 PM
                                          If they release the compiler, how they will blame the still-in-development compiler for the lacklustAnon2020/07/28 05:20 PM
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                                          Apparently they're busy writing a kernel...dmcq2020/07/29 03:39 AM
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        Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/11 09:07 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512j2020/07/13 12:29 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/13 01:12 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512j2020/07/13 02:58 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/13 04:53 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/14 12:57 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/14 10:26 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/14 12:33 PM
                  Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/14 03:43 PM
                    Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 12:55 AM
                      Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 02:19 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 02:34 AM
                          Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 03:03 AM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 09:43 AM
                              Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 09:54 AM
                                Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 11:35 AM
                                  Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 03:18 PM
                                    GV100 + POWER9Michael S2020/07/16 01:17 AM
                                      GV100 + POWER9dmcq2020/07/16 08:58 AM
                                        GV100 + POWER9dmcq2020/07/16 09:10 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 02:48 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512o2020/07/12 03:08 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 11:07 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 11:32 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 11:39 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 12:47 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:18 PM
          x87 crapHeikki Kultala2020/07/12 01:30 PM
            x87 crapMichael S2020/07/12 01:37 PM
              x87 crapHeikki kultala2020/07/12 02:11 PM
                x87 crapMichael S2020/07/12 02:50 PM
                  Sparc and PA-RISC vs pentium FP performanceHeikki Kultala2020/07/13 01:14 AM
                    Sparc and PA-RISC vs pentium FP performanceanonymous22020/07/13 10:48 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/12 03:33 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 04:10 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512David Kanter2020/07/12 05:01 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512anon2020/07/12 05:40 PM
      ~0% of users do much FP outside of GPUs for games (NT)anonymous22020/07/12 05:47 PM
        ~0% of users do much FP outside of GPUs for gamesMaynard Handley2020/07/13 12:26 AM
        not trueChester2020/07/13 12:37 AM
          not trueMichael S2020/07/13 01:29 AM
            not trueChester2020/07/13 01:59 AM
              not trueanonymous22020/07/13 10:32 AM
                not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:30 PM
                  not trueChester2020/07/14 05:47 AM
            not trueDoug S2020/07/13 12:30 PM
              not trueAnon2020/07/13 01:16 PM
                not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:39 PM
              not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:38 PM
          not trueLinus Torvalds2020/07/13 11:27 AM
            not trueDummond D. Slow2020/07/13 02:10 PM
              not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 02:49 PM
                not trueDummond D. Slow2020/07/13 03:38 PM
            not true (about FP, not avx-512)Chester2020/07/17 10:37 AM
  Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 06:45 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/11 06:57 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/12 04:26 PM
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