Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architecture

By: Heikki Kultala (heikk.i.kultala.a.delete@this.gmail.com), July 23, 2020 1:44 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 23, 2020 12:56 am wrote:
> Heikki Kultala (heikk.i.kultala.a.delete@this.gmail.com) on July 22, 2020 12:31 pm wrote:
> >
> > Now, please read the post you are replying to.
> >
> > I was not talking about ITANIUM having something good in it, but EPIC (ie marking some instructions
> > as independent of each others, without scheduling them) having some good in it.
> >
>
> Can you explain what do you mean.
> So far I don't see how early knowledge of independence of adjacent instruction could help
> modern-style OoO. Such information does not appear helpful in in-order renamer side. It is
> even less helpful in dataflow-based OoO "middle core", because independence within a group
> guarantees nothing in terms of availability of input operands. So, where it does help?

If we add another constraint, that ALL the instructions in the bundle have to depend on exactly the same values. Then we need only one (incoming) dependency tracking for all those instructions

* For example, we have multiple instructions which load multiple fields from the struct, so the instructions are like load ptr+offset.

All the instructions are waiting for the pointer of the struct. Immediately when the pointer to the structs is known, we can perform the address calculation of all of the loads.



I'm not saying this is a huge advantage that we should definitely go for, I'm just throwing ideas that "there might be SOME SMALL benefits".

ok, one could argue that this is then no longer EPIC anymore that something else.
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Alder Lake and AVX-512me2020/07/11 06:02 AM
  Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 10:41 AM
    informative (NT)blue2020/07/11 11:40 AM
    grumpyMichael S2020/07/11 11:51 AM
      grumpyme2020/07/11 12:27 PM
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      area and power cost of AVX-512Anon2020/07/11 03:35 PM
        area and power cost of AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 03:16 AM
          area and power cost of AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/12 08:13 AM
      area and power cost of AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 06:19 PM
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      Alder Lake and AVX-512Ungo2020/07/11 04:28 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Maynard Handley2020/07/11 09:16 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 05:51 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 12:48 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 02:07 PM
          HDRAnon32020/07/12 02:42 PM
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              HDR10 in Kaby Lake?Maynard Handley2020/07/12 05:13 PM
                Thanks for the link (NT)David Kanter2020/07/12 05:43 PM
              HDR10 in Kaby Lake?Anon32020/07/13 12:36 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Dummond D. Slow2020/07/12 02:00 PM
        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?m2020/07/23 11:10 AM
          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 11:53 AM
            AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Paul A. Clayton2020/07/23 05:32 PM
              AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 05:50 PM
                AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Paul A. Clayton2020/07/23 06:45 PM
                  AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Anon2020/07/23 07:15 PM
                    AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/24 03:44 AM
                      AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Gabriele Svelto2020/07/24 01:56 PM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jouni Osmala2020/07/24 08:22 PM
                          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/25 12:32 AM
                      AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Eugene Nalimov2020/07/25 04:56 PM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/26 12:28 AM
                        AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Gabriele Svelto2020/07/26 01:22 PM
                          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Jukka Larja2020/07/27 06:00 AM
          AVX-512 with narrow ex units?-.-2020/07/23 05:32 PM
            AVX-512 with narrow ex units?Travis Downs2020/07/24 04:01 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 03:45 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Chester2020/07/11 04:26 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 05:22 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 01:02 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/13 08:01 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/11 05:54 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/11 07:01 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512N Owen2020/07/11 11:37 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 12:48 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 06:13 PM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/13 08:09 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Jörn Engel2020/07/13 10:42 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/11 10:49 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 12:53 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 06:03 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Veedrac2020/07/11 06:43 PM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 12:31 AM
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            Alder Lake and AVX-512anon22020/07/12 02:26 PM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Anon32020/07/12 03:07 PM
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                      PentiumMMX vs Transmeta's VLIW in hindsightMaynard Handley2020/07/19 09:47 AM
                      PentiumMMX vs Transmeta's VLIW in hindsightanon22020/07/19 02:24 PM
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                        VLIW, OOO, Pairing, and FusionMichael S2020/07/19 11:48 PM
                        Itanium is NOT VLIWHeikki Kultala2020/07/20 01:27 PM
                          Itanium is NOT VLIWAdrian2020/07/20 10:03 PM
                            Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?Heikki Kultala2020/07/21 02:38 AM
                              Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?anon22020/07/21 04:03 AM
                                Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?dmcq2020/07/21 02:27 PM
                              Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?j2020/07/21 07:54 AM
                                Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?Tim McCaffrey2020/07/21 09:30 AM
                              Itanium crappiness and EPIC - and could EPIC still have something good in it?Linus Torvalds2020/07/21 08:13 AM
                                Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureHeikki Kultala2020/07/22 11:31 AM
                                  Turn that on its head?Ray2020/07/22 11:49 AM
                                    Turn that on its head?Anon2020/07/22 12:53 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?Maynard Handley2020/07/22 01:37 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?anon22020/07/22 02:32 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?anon32020/07/22 03:45 PM
                                    Turn that on its head?Heikki Kultala2020/07/23 01:53 AM
                                      Turn that on its head?Anon2020/07/23 09:20 AM
                                        Turn that on its head?Heikki Kultala2020/07/23 10:21 AM
                                          Turn that on its head?Brett2020/07/23 02:26 PM
                                            Turn that on its head?Brett2020/07/24 03:22 AM
                                      Bundling OOO entries does this implicitlyDavid Kanter2020/07/23 09:56 AM
                                      Turn that on its head?anon2020/07/23 10:49 AM
                                  Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureMaynard Handley2020/07/22 01:29 PM
                                  Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architecturewumpus2020/07/22 02:16 PM
                                    Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureDoug S2020/07/22 09:37 PM
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                                        what Intel would have doneAnon2020/07/23 09:25 AM
                                          what Intel would have doneMichael S2020/07/23 10:23 AM
                                            what Intel would have doneMontaray Jack2020/07/23 05:08 PM
                                    Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureHeikki Kultala2020/07/22 10:47 PM
                                      Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architecturewumpus2020/07/23 12:46 PM
                                  Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureMichael S2020/07/22 11:56 PM
                                    Itanium is not synomym of EPIC. Itanium is just the most common EPIC-style architectureHeikki Kultala2020/07/23 01:44 AM
                          thanksChester2020/07/24 02:50 PM
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                                                      OS X file names normalizationSimon Farnsworth2020/07/18 05:12 AM
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          Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 10:35 AM
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              ~80% of details are wrong. So what one can expect from conclusions? :(anonymous22020/07/12 11:50 AM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/12 11:25 AM
              Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 11:37 AM
                Alder Lake and AVX-512nobody in particular2020/07/12 11:43 AM
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                      Configurable cache line size?Etienne2020/07/17 12:03 AM
                        Configurable cache line size?Hugo Décharnes2020/07/18 01:11 AM
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                                          If they release the compiler, how they will blame the still-in-development compiler for the lacklustAnon2020/07/28 04:20 PM
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                                          Apparently they're busy writing a kernel...dmcq2020/07/29 02:39 AM
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            Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/13 03:53 PM
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                Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/14 11:33 AM
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                        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 01:34 AM
                          Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 02:03 AM
                            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 08:43 AM
                              Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 08:54 AM
                                Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/15 10:35 AM
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                                      GV100 + POWER9dmcq2020/07/16 07:58 AM
                                        GV100 + POWER9dmcq2020/07/16 08:10 AM
                        Alder Lake and AVX-512dmcq2020/07/15 01:48 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512o2020/07/12 02:08 AM
    Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 10:07 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 10:32 AM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512Linus Torvalds2020/07/12 10:39 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-5122020/07/12 11:47 AM
        Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 12:18 PM
          x87 crapHeikki Kultala2020/07/12 12:30 PM
            x87 crapMichael S2020/07/12 12:37 PM
              x87 crapHeikki kultala2020/07/12 01:11 PM
                x87 crapMichael S2020/07/12 01:50 PM
                  Sparc and PA-RISC vs pentium FP performanceHeikki Kultala2020/07/13 12:14 AM
                    Sparc and PA-RISC vs pentium FP performanceanonymous22020/07/13 09:48 AM
          Alder Lake and AVX-512Doug S2020/07/12 02:33 PM
            Alder Lake and AVX-512Michael S2020/07/12 03:10 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512David Kanter2020/07/12 04:01 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512anon2020/07/12 04:40 PM
      ~0% of users do much FP outside of GPUs for games (NT)anonymous22020/07/12 04:47 PM
        ~0% of users do much FP outside of GPUs for gamesMaynard Handley2020/07/12 11:26 PM
        not trueChester2020/07/12 11:37 PM
          not trueMichael S2020/07/13 12:29 AM
            not trueChester2020/07/13 12:59 AM
              not trueanonymous22020/07/13 09:32 AM
                not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 01:30 PM
                  not trueChester2020/07/14 04:47 AM
            not trueDoug S2020/07/13 11:30 AM
              not trueAnon2020/07/13 12:16 PM
                not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 01:39 PM
              not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 01:38 PM
          not trueLinus Torvalds2020/07/13 10:27 AM
            not trueDummond D. Slow2020/07/13 01:10 PM
              not trueMaynard Handley2020/07/13 01:49 PM
                not trueDummond D. Slow2020/07/13 02:38 PM
            not true (about FP, not avx-512)Chester2020/07/17 09:37 AM
  Alder Lake and AVX-512Travis Downs2020/07/11 05:45 PM
    Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/11 05:57 PM
      Alder Lake and AVX-512-.-2020/07/12 03:26 PM
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