NUVIA Phoenix

By: Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us), August 15, 2020 6:41 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Chester (lamchester.delete@this.gmail.com) on August 14, 2020 11:12 am wrote:
> > Do you believe that AMD can ship a substantial boost over Zen 3 by end of 2021?
> > Not to knock AMD, but that seems, uh, ambitious. Even when Intel was
> > firing on all cylinders, the best they could do was Tick Tock.
> > I'd expect Zen 3 (7nm, IPC boost) to have minor tweaks for
> > 5nm, the easy stuff (eg larger LLC) but no serious
> > IPC boost. MAYBE they can pick up a few percent in frequency,
> > but more likely, I'd expect, is they take the process
> > win as lower power/able to sustain today's maximum frequency longer/over more cores simultaneously.
>
> And with 5nm comes more transistor budget for bigger buffers, more execution resources, and wider stages.
> I think it can be a substantial boost over Zen 3. Zen 2 was a substantial boost over Zen 1 after all.
>
> > Sure, I see Apple as being able to do this and not AMD. Am I being hypocritical? No, I'm looking
> > at the track record in both spaces. Like I said, even Intel at its best couldn't do what you're
> > suggesting --
>
> AMD has a much longer history of designing CPUs than Apple, and much more eperience targeting high performance
> segments as well. They have one-upped Intel before, and are doing so now. I wouldn't underestimate them.
>
> > something about the combination of x86 and/or reaching for frequency (lotsa
> > custom circuits, trying to tweak *any* feature impacts clock)
>
> That's a very cynical view. Yes, AMD and Intel hit clock speeds higher than ARM chips, but they're still striking
> a balance. Sometimes it's done well (chips today), and sometimes it's done badly (P4, bulldozer).
>
> You seem to assume companies other than Apple are prone to making extreme,
> black-and-white design choices. That's not what happens at all.
>
> > and/or trying to target a single
> > design from server to mobile seems to make that sort of pace impossible.
>
> Again both AMD and Intel have made big gains. Sure, percentage wise they gain less than ARM,
> but that's because ARM's starting from behind (and benefit from seeing what worked for AMD/Intel).
> RISC-V starts from even further behind and thus sees even bigger percentage gains.
>
> But I do agree that trying to target a single design for everything from server
> to mobile creates compromises. That's likely holding AMD/Intel back.
>

It's also plausible that Apple can simply outspend Intel (and definitely AMD), but Maynard probably goes a bit farther with the triumphalism, beyond just this objective money factor :)

BTW on the topic of Zen 3 follow-up (Zen 4), that's going to be 5nm so it should be a big efficiency boost again, like shown by Rome, but I'd expect it in H2 2022, not in 2021.
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NUVIA PhoenixAdrian2020/08/11 10:00 AM
  NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/11 11:51 AM
    NUVIA PhoenixMichael S2020/08/11 12:31 PM
      NUVIA PhoenixJan Olšan2020/08/11 12:53 PM
        NUVIA PhoenixGabriele Svelto2020/08/11 01:12 PM
        NUVIA PhoenixMichael S2020/08/11 01:25 PM
          NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/11 01:59 PM
            NUVIA Phoenixjuanrga2020/08/12 03:16 AM
              NUVIA Phoenixhobel2020/08/12 05:41 AM
            NUVIA Phoenixblue2020/08/12 10:25 AM
              NUVIA PhoenixDummond D. Slow2020/08/12 11:44 AM
                NUVIA Phoenixblue2020/08/12 09:07 PM
              NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/12 11:46 AM
                NUVIA Phoenixblue2020/08/12 09:03 PM
                  NUVIA Phoenixjames Wise2020/08/13 06:26 PM
                    good point, thank you (NT)blue2020/08/14 06:06 AM
                NUVIA PhoenixChester2020/08/14 10:12 AM
                  NUVIA PhoenixDummond D. Slow2020/08/15 06:41 AM
        NUVIA Phoenixjuanrga2020/08/12 03:07 AM
      NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/11 12:56 PM
      NUVIA PhoenixAndrei F2020/08/11 03:04 PM
        NUVIA Phoenixanonymou52020/08/11 03:30 PM
          NUVIA PhoenixAndrei F2020/08/11 03:41 PM
          NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/11 04:34 PM
            NUVIA PhoenixDummond D. Slow2020/08/11 04:51 PM
              NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/11 05:09 PM
                NUVIA PhoenixDavid Kanter2020/08/11 08:58 PM
                  NUVIA Phoenixanon2020/08/11 10:06 PM
            NUVIA Phoenixvvid2020/08/12 01:40 AM
              NUVIA PhoenixMaynard Handley2020/08/12 08:56 AM
                NUVIA Phoenixvvid2020/08/12 12:24 PM
          NUVIA PhoenixAdrian2020/08/11 09:27 PM
  NUVIA PhoenixBeastian2020/08/11 05:10 PM
  NUVIA Phoenix2020/08/12 01:01 AM
    NUVIA Phoenixjuanrga2020/08/12 03:22 AM
      NUVIA Phoenix2020/08/12 08:47 PM
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