Zen 3

By: Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org), October 10, 2020 2:18 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on October 10, 2020 1:59 am wrote:
> Mr. Camel (no.thanks.delete@this.gmail.com) on October 9, 2020 6:30 pm wrote:
> > Blue (blue.delete@this.blue.com) on October 8, 2020 9:58 am wrote:
> > > AMD's announce Zen3 with an average of 19% IPC uplift "in desktop applications"
> > > and about a 5-10% clockspeed boost (ST, MT unknown).
> > >
> > > Seems like they're rightfully pushing to up their margin.
> > >
> > > If AMD can keep up this 15-19% gains every generation, when do
> > > the "big on ARM" folks think ARM will effectively catch up?
> >
> > How would an 8 core Zen 3 desktop chip compare to a desktop class 8 core Willow Cove chip?
> >
> > This assumes that a desktop Willow Cove could hit higher frequencies
> > than the mobile version due to more thermal headroom.
> >
> >
> The single-thread Cinebench showed Zen 3 @ 4.8 GHz as faster
> by 6% than Willow Cove (Tiger Lake) at the same 4.8 GHz.
> So Rocket Lake (it is not known whether its Cypress Cove core is more similar to Willow
> Cove or to its predecessor from Ice Lake, but the differences between these 2 cores are
> small anyway) will have to reach at least 5.3 GHz to slightly exceed a 4.9 GHz Zen 3.
> For multi-threaded applications an 8-core Rocket Lake will be limited to a lower base frequency than Comet
> Lake (because of doing more work per clock cycle) and it is unlikely that it would match even a 12-core
> Zen 2, and certainly it will be easily beaten by an 8-core Zen 3, due to its higher energy efficiency leading
> to higher clock frequencies when limited by the TDP. The low efficiency of Rocket Lake for power-limited
> MT tasks will be mitigated by 125 W vs. 105 W, but compared to Zen 3 this will not be enough.

Sorry, I might have misinterpreted your question, because the only "Willow Cove" like desktop CPU announced on Intel's roadmaps is the 14-nm Rocket Lake with Cypress Cove.

If your question was about a *10-nm* Intel desktop CPU, i.e. a desktop version of the Tiger Lake H, expected to be launched next year with a TDP up to 65 W, then the answer is different.

Tiger Lake H is expected in laptops, but it might also show up in small desktops, e.g. in a successor of the Intel NUC Pro model that currently uses a Coffee Lake Refresh H 8-core CPU.

Tiger Lake and Zen 3 should have similar energy efficiencies, so they should be close in multi-threaded benchmarks at the same number of cores.

We do not know yet whether an 8-core Tiger Lake will beat an 8-core Zen 3 in MT benchmarks or vice versa, but they should not differ much anyway.

Of course, 12-core and 16-core AMD CPUs will be much faster.

However, despite the higher TDP, I do not believe that a desktop Tiger Lake H may have a much higher turbo than the current 4.8 GHz of Tiger Lake U.

The 4.8 GHz seems to be a limit due to the process, like the 4.9 GHz of the Zen 3 and the active core at that frequency consumes much less than allowed by the thermal headroom.

Until March 2021, Intel might tweak a little their process and their masks, so I expect a top speed of either 4.9 GHz or at most 5.0 GHz for Tiger Lake H, which will have thus frequency parity with Zen 3, but Zen 3 appears to have a better IPC in ST tasks.

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TopicPosted ByDate
Zen 3Blue2020/10/08 09:58 AM
  Zen 3Rayla2020/10/08 10:10 AM
  Zen 3Adrian2020/10/08 10:13 AM
    Does anyone know whether Zen 3 has AVX-512? (NT)Foo_2020/10/08 11:54 AM
      Does anyone know whether Zen 3 has AVX-512?Adrian2020/10/08 12:11 PM
  Zen 3 - Number of load/store units2020/10/08 10:21 AM
    Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsRayla2020/10/08 10:28 AM
      Zen 3 - Number of load/store units2020/10/08 11:22 AM
        Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsAdrian2020/10/08 11:53 AM
          Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsTravis Downs2020/10/08 09:45 PM
          Zen 3 - CAD benchmarkPer Hesselgren2020/10/09 07:29 AM
            Zen 3 - CAD benchmarkAdrian2020/10/09 09:27 AM
        Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsitsmydamnation2020/10/08 02:38 PM
          Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsGroo2020/10/08 02:48 PM
            Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsWilco2020/10/08 03:02 PM
              Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDummond D. Slow2020/10/08 04:39 PM
                Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDoug S2020/10/09 08:11 AM
                  Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDummond D. Slow2020/10/09 09:43 AM
                    Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDoug S2020/10/09 01:43 PM
                      N7 and N7P are not load/Store units - please fix the topic in your replies (NT)Heikki Kultala2020/10/10 07:37 AM
  Zen 3Jeff S.2020/10/08 12:16 PM
    Zen 3anon2020/10/08 01:57 PM
    Disappointing opening line in paperPaul A. Clayton2020/10/11 06:16 AM
      Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..."Paul A. Clayton2020/10/14 12:11 PM
        Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..."anon2020/10/15 11:56 AM
          Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..."anon2020/10/15 11:57 AM
            Sorry about the messanon2020/10/15 11:58 AM
              Sorry about the messBrett2020/10/16 03:22 AM
          Caching dependence info in µop cachePaul A. Clayton2020/10/16 06:20 AM
            Caching dependence info in µop cacheanon2020/10/16 12:36 PM
              Caching dependence info in µop cachePaul A. Clayton2020/10/18 01:28 PM
  Zen 3juanrga2020/10/09 10:12 AM
  Zen 3Mr. Camel2020/10/09 06:30 PM
    Zen 3anon.12020/10/10 12:44 AM
      Cinebench is terrible benchmarkDavid Kanter2020/10/10 10:36 AM
        Cinebench is terrible benchmarkanon.12020/10/10 12:06 PM
        Cinebench is terrible benchmarkhobold2020/10/10 12:33 PM
          Some comments on benchmarksPaul A. Clayton2020/10/14 12:11 PM
            Some comments on benchmarksMark Roulo2020/10/14 03:21 PM
    Zen 3Adrian2020/10/10 01:59 AM
      Zen 3Adrian2020/10/10 02:18 AM
        Zen 3majord2020/10/15 04:02 AM
  Zen 3hobold2020/10/10 08:58 AM
    Zen 3Maynard Handley2020/10/10 10:36 AM
      Zen 3hobold2020/10/10 12:19 PM
        Zen 3anon2020/10/11 02:58 AM
          Zen 3hobold2020/10/11 12:32 PM
            Zen 3anon2020/10/11 01:07 PM
              Zen 3hobold2020/10/11 02:22 PM
    Zen 3anon2020/10/10 11:51 AM
    Zen 3Michael S2020/10/11 01:16 AM
      Zen 3hobold2020/10/11 02:13 AM
        Zen 3Michael S2020/10/11 02:18 AM
      Zen 3anon.12020/10/11 12:17 PM
  Zen 3David Hess2020/10/12 06:43 AM
    more power? (NT)anonymous22020/10/12 01:26 PM
      I think he's comparing 65W 3700X vs 105W 5800X (NT)John H2020/10/12 04:33 PM
        ?! Those are apples and oranges! (NT)anon2020/10/12 04:49 PM
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