By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), October 10, 2020 9:36 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
hobold (hobold.delete@this.vectorizer.org) on October 10, 2020 8:58 am wrote:
> Blue (blue.delete@this.blue.com) on October 8, 2020 9:58 am wrote:
> [...]
> > If AMD can keep up this 15-19% gains every generation, when do
> > the "big on ARM" folks think ARM will effectively catch up?
>
> Most of Zen3's gains seem to come from the reduction of latency (to memory, and between cores). In a sense,
> Zen3 shows how good the Zen2 core already was, if it hadn't been starved for data. The lowered base clocks
> of Zen3 also point to a higher utilization of core execution units (and thus more power draw) at 100% load.
> This seems to be more evidence for there being fewer pipeline bubbles in Zen3 compared to Zen2.
>
> But one cannot reduce latency below zero (no matter what marketing departments
> say), so these gains are not very likely to be repeated by AMD.
Yes you can :-) Value prediction is real, and done competently provides genuine speedups...
As far as I can tell no-one is doing value prediction yet (as always asterisk against Apple...) but it's still a promising technology once everything easier has been done.
> On the flip side, SMT gains appear to be lower in Zen3, because a single thread
> alone can now utilize more of the core execution units than it can in Zen2.
>
>
> It's not ARM that needs to catch up; it's Intel.
> Blue (blue.delete@this.blue.com) on October 8, 2020 9:58 am wrote:
> [...]
> > If AMD can keep up this 15-19% gains every generation, when do
> > the "big on ARM" folks think ARM will effectively catch up?
>
> Most of Zen3's gains seem to come from the reduction of latency (to memory, and between cores). In a sense,
> Zen3 shows how good the Zen2 core already was, if it hadn't been starved for data. The lowered base clocks
> of Zen3 also point to a higher utilization of core execution units (and thus more power draw) at 100% load.
> This seems to be more evidence for there being fewer pipeline bubbles in Zen3 compared to Zen2.
>
> But one cannot reduce latency below zero (no matter what marketing departments
> say), so these gains are not very likely to be repeated by AMD.
Yes you can :-) Value prediction is real, and done competently provides genuine speedups...
As far as I can tell no-one is doing value prediction yet (as always asterisk against Apple...) but it's still a promising technology once everything easier has been done.
> On the flip side, SMT gains appear to be lower in Zen3, because a single thread
> alone can now utilize more of the core execution units than it can in Zen2.
>
>
> It's not ARM that needs to catch up; it's Intel.
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
Zen 3 | Blue | 2020/10/08 08:58 AM |
Zen 3 | Rayla | 2020/10/08 09:10 AM |
Zen 3 | Adrian | 2020/10/08 09:13 AM |
Does anyone know whether Zen 3 has AVX-512? (NT) | Foo_ | 2020/10/08 10:54 AM |
Does anyone know whether Zen 3 has AVX-512? | Adrian | 2020/10/08 11:11 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | ⚛ | 2020/10/08 09:21 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Rayla | 2020/10/08 09:28 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | ⚛ | 2020/10/08 10:22 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Adrian | 2020/10/08 10:53 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Travis Downs | 2020/10/08 08:45 PM |
Zen 3 - CAD benchmark | Per Hesselgren | 2020/10/09 06:29 AM |
Zen 3 - CAD benchmark | Adrian | 2020/10/09 08:27 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | itsmydamnation | 2020/10/08 01:38 PM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Groo | 2020/10/08 01:48 PM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Wilco | 2020/10/08 02:02 PM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Dummond D. Slow | 2020/10/08 03:39 PM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Doug S | 2020/10/09 07:11 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Dummond D. Slow | 2020/10/09 08:43 AM |
Zen 3 - Number of load/store units | Doug S | 2020/10/09 12:43 PM |
N7 and N7P are not load/Store units - please fix the topic in your replies (NT) | Heikki Kultala | 2020/10/10 06:37 AM |
Zen 3 | Jeff S. | 2020/10/08 11:16 AM |
Zen 3 | anon | 2020/10/08 12:57 PM |
Disappointing opening line in paper | Paul A. Clayton | 2020/10/11 05:16 AM |
Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..." | Paul A. Clayton | 2020/10/14 11:11 AM |
Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..." | anon | 2020/10/15 10:56 AM |
Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..." | anon | 2020/10/15 10:57 AM |
Sorry about the mess | anon | 2020/10/15 10:58 AM |
Sorry about the mess | Brett | 2020/10/16 02:22 AM |
Caching dependence info in µop cache | Paul A. Clayton | 2020/10/16 05:20 AM |
Caching dependence info in µop cache | anon | 2020/10/16 11:36 AM |
Caching dependence info in µop cache | Paul A. Clayton | 2020/10/18 12:28 PM |
Zen 3 | juanrga | 2020/10/09 09:12 AM |
Zen 3 | Mr. Camel | 2020/10/09 05:30 PM |
Zen 3 | anon.1 | 2020/10/09 11:44 PM |
Cinebench is terrible benchmark | David Kanter | 2020/10/10 09:36 AM |
Cinebench is terrible benchmark | anon.1 | 2020/10/10 11:06 AM |
Cinebench is terrible benchmark | hobold | 2020/10/10 11:33 AM |
Some comments on benchmarks | Paul A. Clayton | 2020/10/14 11:11 AM |
Some comments on benchmarks | Mark Roulo | 2020/10/14 02:21 PM |
Zen 3 | Adrian | 2020/10/10 12:59 AM |
Zen 3 | Adrian | 2020/10/10 01:18 AM |
Zen 3 | majord | 2020/10/15 03:02 AM |
Zen 3 | hobold | 2020/10/10 07:58 AM |
Zen 3 | Maynard Handley | 2020/10/10 09:36 AM |
Zen 3 | hobold | 2020/10/10 11:19 AM |
Zen 3 | anon | 2020/10/11 01:58 AM |
Zen 3 | hobold | 2020/10/11 11:32 AM |
Zen 3 | anon | 2020/10/11 12:07 PM |
Zen 3 | hobold | 2020/10/11 01:22 PM |
Zen 3 | anon | 2020/10/10 10:51 AM |
Zen 3 | Michael S | 2020/10/11 12:16 AM |
Zen 3 | hobold | 2020/10/11 01:13 AM |
Zen 3 | Michael S | 2020/10/11 01:18 AM |
Zen 3 | anon.1 | 2020/10/11 11:17 AM |
Zen 3 | David Hess | 2020/10/12 05:43 AM |
more power? (NT) | anonymous2 | 2020/10/12 12:26 PM |
I think he's comparing 65W 3700X vs 105W 5800X (NT) | John H | 2020/10/12 03:33 PM |
?! Those are apples and oranges! (NT) | anon | 2020/10/12 03:49 PM |