Zen 3

By: majord (mjord.delete@this.majord.com), October 15, 2020 4:02 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Tigerlake is WELL below even Zen 2 Efficiency until around 4Ghz, when it begins to catch up quite quickly due to Zen 2's fairly steep 'efficiency wall' around the 4.3ghz mark.

In other words, Tigerlake scales to higher frequencies better, as expected, and as a desktop 8 core in the 100w+TDP bracket would do quite well operating up there , assuming it can sustain high enough clockspeeds without similar power density issues that Zen 2 suffers(the physically larger floorplan would help I'd imagine.


Zen 3 is a different story. It seems it will flip the IPC factor back in its favor, and also appears to scale slightly higher in frequency.

Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on October 10, 2020 2:18 am wrote:
> Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on October 10, 2020 1:59 am wrote:
> > Mr. Camel (no.thanks.delete@this.gmail.com) on October 9, 2020 6:30 pm wrote:
> > > Blue (blue.delete@this.blue.com) on October 8, 2020 9:58 am wrote:
> > > > AMD's announce Zen3 with an average of 19% IPC uplift "in desktop applications"
> > > > and about a 5-10% clockspeed boost (ST, MT unknown).
> > > >
> > > > Seems like they're rightfully pushing to up their margin.
> > > >
> > > > If AMD can keep up this 15-19% gains every generation, when do
> > > > the "big on ARM" folks think ARM will effectively catch up?
> > >
> > > How would an 8 core Zen 3 desktop chip compare to a desktop class 8 core Willow Cove chip?
> > >
> > > This assumes that a desktop Willow Cove could hit higher frequencies
> > > than the mobile version due to more thermal headroom.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The single-thread Cinebench showed Zen 3 @ 4.8 GHz as faster
> > by 6% than Willow Cove (Tiger Lake) at the same 4.8 GHz.
> >
> > So Rocket Lake (it is not known whether its Cypress Cove core is more similar to Willow
> > Cove or to its predecessor from Ice Lake, but the differences between these 2 cores are
> > small anyway) will have to reach at least 5.3 GHz to slightly exceed a 4.9 GHz Zen 3.
> >
> >
> > For multi-threaded applications an 8-core Rocket Lake will be limited to a lower base frequency than Comet
> > Lake (because of doing more work per clock cycle) and it is unlikely that it would match even a 12-core
> > Zen 2, and certainly it will be easily beaten by an 8-core
> > Zen 3, due to its higher energy efficiency leading
> > to higher clock frequencies when limited by the TDP. The low efficiency of Rocket Lake for power-limited
> > MT tasks will be mitigated by 125 W vs. 105 W, but compared to Zen 3 this will not be enough.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Sorry, I might have misinterpreted your question, because the only "Willow Cove" like
> desktop CPU announced on Intel's roadmaps is the 14-nm Rocket Lake with Cypress Cove.
>
>
> If your question was about a *10-nm* Intel desktop CPU, i.e. a desktop version of the Tiger Lake
> H, expected to be launched next year with a TDP up to 65 W, then the answer is different.
>
> Tiger Lake H is expected in laptops, but it might also show up in small desktops, e.g. in a successor
> of the Intel NUC Pro model that currently uses a Coffee Lake Refresh H 8-core CPU.
>
>
> Tiger Lake and Zen 3 should have similar energy efficiencies, so they should
> be close in multi-threaded benchmarks at the same number of cores.
>
> We do not know yet whether an 8-core Tiger Lake will beat an 8-core Zen 3
> in MT benchmarks or vice versa, but they should not differ much anyway.
>
> Of course, 12-core and 16-core AMD CPUs will be much faster.
>
>
> However, despite the higher TDP, I do not believe that a desktop Tiger Lake
> H may have a much higher turbo than the current 4.8 GHz of Tiger Lake U.
>
> The 4.8 GHz seems to be a limit due to the process, like the 4.9 GHz of the Zen 3 and the
> active core at that frequency consumes much less than allowed by the thermal headroom.
>
> Until March 2021, Intel might tweak a little their process and their masks, so I expect
> a top speed of either 4.9 GHz or at most 5.0 GHz for Tiger Lake H, which will have thus
> frequency parity with Zen 3, but Zen 3 appears to have a better IPC in ST tasks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Zen 3Blue2020/10/08 09:58 AM
  Zen 3Rayla2020/10/08 10:10 AM
  Zen 3Adrian2020/10/08 10:13 AM
    Does anyone know whether Zen 3 has AVX-512? (NT)Foo_2020/10/08 11:54 AM
      Does anyone know whether Zen 3 has AVX-512?Adrian2020/10/08 12:11 PM
  Zen 3 - Number of load/store units2020/10/08 10:21 AM
    Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsRayla2020/10/08 10:28 AM
      Zen 3 - Number of load/store units2020/10/08 11:22 AM
        Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsAdrian2020/10/08 11:53 AM
          Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsTravis Downs2020/10/08 09:45 PM
          Zen 3 - CAD benchmarkPer Hesselgren2020/10/09 07:29 AM
            Zen 3 - CAD benchmarkAdrian2020/10/09 09:27 AM
        Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsitsmydamnation2020/10/08 02:38 PM
          Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsGroo2020/10/08 02:48 PM
            Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsWilco2020/10/08 03:02 PM
              Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDummond D. Slow2020/10/08 04:39 PM
                Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDoug S2020/10/09 08:11 AM
                  Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDummond D. Slow2020/10/09 09:43 AM
                    Zen 3 - Number of load/store unitsDoug S2020/10/09 01:43 PM
                      N7 and N7P are not load/Store units - please fix the topic in your replies (NT)Heikki Kultala2020/10/10 07:37 AM
  Zen 3Jeff S.2020/10/08 12:16 PM
    Zen 3anon2020/10/08 01:57 PM
    Disappointing opening line in paperPaul A. Clayton2020/10/11 06:16 AM
      Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..."Paul A. Clayton2020/10/14 12:11 PM
        Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..."anon2020/10/15 11:56 AM
          Thoughts on "Improving the Utilization of µop Caches..."anon2020/10/15 11:57 AM
            Sorry about the messanon2020/10/15 11:58 AM
              Sorry about the messBrett2020/10/16 03:22 AM
          Caching dependence info in µop cachePaul A. Clayton2020/10/16 06:20 AM
            Caching dependence info in µop cacheanon2020/10/16 12:36 PM
              Caching dependence info in µop cachePaul A. Clayton2020/10/18 01:28 PM
  Zen 3juanrga2020/10/09 10:12 AM
  Zen 3Mr. Camel2020/10/09 06:30 PM
    Zen 3anon.12020/10/10 12:44 AM
      Cinebench is terrible benchmarkDavid Kanter2020/10/10 10:36 AM
        Cinebench is terrible benchmarkanon.12020/10/10 12:06 PM
        Cinebench is terrible benchmarkhobold2020/10/10 12:33 PM
          Some comments on benchmarksPaul A. Clayton2020/10/14 12:11 PM
            Some comments on benchmarksMark Roulo2020/10/14 03:21 PM
    Zen 3Adrian2020/10/10 01:59 AM
      Zen 3Adrian2020/10/10 02:18 AM
        Zen 3majord2020/10/15 04:02 AM
  Zen 3hobold2020/10/10 08:58 AM
    Zen 3Maynard Handley2020/10/10 10:36 AM
      Zen 3hobold2020/10/10 12:19 PM
        Zen 3anon2020/10/11 02:58 AM
          Zen 3hobold2020/10/11 12:32 PM
            Zen 3anon2020/10/11 01:07 PM
              Zen 3hobold2020/10/11 02:22 PM
    Zen 3anon2020/10/10 11:51 AM
    Zen 3Michael S2020/10/11 01:16 AM
      Zen 3hobold2020/10/11 02:13 AM
        Zen 3Michael S2020/10/11 02:18 AM
      Zen 3anon.12020/10/11 12:17 PM
  Zen 3David Hess2020/10/12 06:43 AM
    more power? (NT)anonymous22020/10/12 01:26 PM
      I think he's comparing 65W 3700X vs 105W 5800X (NT)John H2020/10/12 04:33 PM
        ?! Those are apples and oranges! (NT)anon2020/10/12 04:49 PM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell avocado?