re: "scaling"

By: Chester (lamchester.delete@this.gmail.com), November 17, 2020 5:29 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on November 17, 2020 12:52 pm wrote:
> Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on November 17, 2020 12:41 pm wrote:
> > sr (nobody.delete@this.nowhere.com) on November 17, 2020 11:39 am wrote:
> > > Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us) on November 16, 2020 6:22 pm wrote:
> > >
> > > > Uh? Whether the MT score is good or bad, that absolutely depyends on the power consumed.
> > > > If it does better then say the octocore Ryzen 4800U (probably most efficient laptop chip for this task on
> > > > x86 side, ATM) in the particular power envelope, be it 10W or 15W or whatever, that is a good result.
> > > > If it does worse but at proportionally lower power, also good result.
> > > >
> > > > If the AMD beats M1 at the same or even better power = bad result for Apple.
> > > > And that could all happen with the exact same 7500 points score the M1 achieves. What
> > > > that number means absolutely depends on the power consumed... Not sure what is not
> > > > to understand, performance-per-watt is ultimately the name of the game in these multithreaded
> > > > tasks. It's like with GPUs, ultimately your performance is TDP-limited.
> > >
> > > Not against 4800U but against previous Apple laptops power efficiency is about 10
> > > times better at high loads while simultaneously offering better performance:
> > >
> > > yeah-apples-m1-macbook-pro-is-powerful-but-its-the-battery-life-that-will-blow-you-away/
> > >
> > > Wonder if it's good enough or should Apple have stayed with x86.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course the new Apple computers with M1 are much better than what they are
> > replacing (except for the lower memory capacity and number of I/O ports).
> >
> > However, that was an extremely low bar to pass, because Apple computers were notorious
> > in recent years for their low performance compared to alternatives.
> >
> >
> > The comparisons with the older Apple products are useful for the Apple customers, to insure them that an
> > upgrade is desirable, but they are completely useless for those who currently are not Apple customers.
> >
> > For the latter, only the comparisons with Intel Tiger Lake, AMD Renoir and AMD Zen 3 are useful.
> >
> > Compared to Intel Tiger Lake and AMD Zen 3, the differences in single-thread CPU performance
> > are too small to have any practical consequence, so the right conclusion is that all
> > these 3 processors have approximately the same single-thread performance, but the Apple
> > M1 achieves it at a much lower power consumption and clock frequency.
> >
>
>
> I want to add that when using a processor with only 4 cores, the smaller power per core does not
> bring much advantage, because it is a small part of the power consumed by the system, the power consumptions
> for different usage cases measured at Anandtech are very similar with those of a NUC.
>
> For a large CPU with 64 or 128 cores, an M1-like efficiency
> would have a much larger impact on the power consumption.

Not sure if this will be the case in M1's favor. In MT Cinebench, it already loses to Zen 2 (4800U) even when AMD's chip is constrained to a lower power budget of 15W. That's not a good sign, because the 4800U is a process node behind and the core design has already been superseded.

> While for the CPU the large IPC and low clock frequency lead to a large advantage in power consumption
> over alternatives, for the Apple GPU I do not see any trick that they could use to have a very different
> power efficiency than the competition, so at the GPU power I believe that the M1 does not have a
> larger advantage in power efficiency than afforded by the superior 5-nm process.
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksMaynard Handley2020/11/16 12:46 PM
  1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksAdrian2020/11/16 01:02 PM
    1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksI_vs2020/11/17 01:18 AM
  1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksRType2020/11/16 01:06 PM
    1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksMaynard Handley2020/11/16 01:45 PM
      And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresMaynard Handley2020/11/16 02:58 PM
        And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresWill2020/11/16 03:30 PM
          re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:06 PM
            re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 04:29 PM
              re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:51 PM
                re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 05:51 PM
                  re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 06:22 PM
                    re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 06:23 PM
                      re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 06:27 PM
                        re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 06:37 PM
                          re: "scaling"Chester2020/11/16 08:25 PM
                          Actual power consumption values.Dummond D. Slow2020/11/17 07:05 AM
                    re: "scaling"Doug S2020/11/17 10:25 AM
                      Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/17 11:18 AM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDoug S2020/11/17 12:21 PM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTblaine2020/11/19 05:18 PM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 05:31 PM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTTJ2020/11/18 01:10 AM
                          Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsAndrei F2020/11/18 05:21 AM
                            SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 07:02 AM
                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:17 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsnone2020/11/18 08:18 AM
                                  x264 without SIMD is nonsenseDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 08:31 AM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 09:13 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 09:21 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsWilco2020/11/18 09:42 AM
                                        role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 11:06 AM
                                          role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersdifferent anon2020/11/18 01:27 PM
                                            role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 02:47 PM
                                              role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersDummond D. Slow2021/05/18 12:29 PM
                                          role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersRichardC2020/11/18 03:42 PM
                                          role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersnone2020/11/19 07:17 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsnone2020/11/18 10:14 AM
                                        SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 11:17 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 11:03 AM
                                        SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 11:25 AM
                                          SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 12:03 PM
                                            SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 02:57 PM
                                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 04:36 PM
                                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 04:50 PM
                                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/19 09:13 AM
                                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloads-.-2020/11/19 02:34 PM
                                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 02:35 PM
                                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsEtienne Lorrain2020/11/19 04:04 AM
                                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 05:58 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 02:06 PM
                                  about bitratesDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:04 PM
                                    about bitratesChester2020/11/19 02:45 PM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsOok2020/11/18 03:05 PM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:21 PM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsNoSpammer2020/11/19 06:48 AM
                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAndrei F2020/11/18 07:44 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:48 AM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 08:15 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 08:41 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 09:04 AM
                                        SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 09:32 AM
                                          SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 10:26 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 09:22 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 10:28 AM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAndrei F2020/11/18 08:34 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 09:00 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 02:18 PM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsJukka Larja2020/11/20 08:03 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 02:13 PM
                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsnone2020/11/18 08:07 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMichael S2020/11/18 01:33 PM
                                  Interesting, thanks! (NT)none2020/11/19 07:03 AM
                            Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsrwessel2020/11/18 07:03 AM
                              Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/18 07:44 AM
                                Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:52 AM
                                  Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/18 02:59 PM
                                    Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:12 PM
                                      Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/19 09:19 AM
                                        Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 03:03 PM
                                          Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsUngo2020/11/19 08:12 PM
                                            Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/20 08:45 AM
                                It's not really SMT or adding small coresDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:58 AM
                                  It's not really SMT or adding small coresDoug S2020/11/18 03:02 PM
                                    It's not really SMT or adding small coresDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:27 PM
                                Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsxyz2020/11/18 12:14 PM
                                  Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 12:54 PM
                                    Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsGabriele Svelto2020/11/18 01:41 PM
                                      Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 01:52 PM
                                        Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsGabriele Svelto2020/11/18 02:05 PM
                            Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsTJ2020/11/18 11:46 AM
                            SMT shines in IO heavy & commercial DB workloadsxyz2020/11/18 12:05 PM
                            "Average workloads" don't exist (NT)Foo_2020/11/19 02:55 AM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:02 AM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/18 08:37 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 08:55 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDavid Hess2020/11/18 12:12 PM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/18 01:12 PM
                                  Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJörn Engel2020/11/18 04:04 PM
                                    Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTanonymou52020/11/18 04:37 PM
                                      Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJörn Engel2020/11/19 03:28 AM
                                  Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDavid Hess'2020/11/19 06:25 PM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/18 07:23 AM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTgallier22020/11/18 11:21 PM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJames2020/11/19 01:22 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTWilco2020/11/19 04:06 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTanonymou52020/11/19 01:34 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTgallier22020/11/19 08:04 AM
                                  big.LITTLE with different ISAsJames2020/11/19 08:41 AM
                                    big.LITTLE with different ISAsgallier22020/11/20 02:36 AM
                                    big.LITTLE with different ISAsanon2020/11/20 12:31 PM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/19 01:56 AM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJon Masters2020/11/18 11:46 AM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTanonymou52020/11/18 02:41 PM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:17 PM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/18 04:46 PM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJon Masters2020/11/18 11:31 PM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 06:01 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/19 01:50 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/19 02:10 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/19 09:13 AM
                                  Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 03:10 PM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTjuanrga2020/11/19 01:49 AM
                    re: "scaling"sr2020/11/17 11:39 AM
                      re: "scaling"Adrian2020/11/17 12:41 PM
                        re: "scaling"Adrian2020/11/17 12:52 PM
                          re: "scaling"Chester2020/11/17 05:29 PM
                  re: "scaling"anonymou52020/11/16 07:18 PM
                    re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 07:44 PM
        And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresDummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:12 PM
          And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresMaynard Handley2020/11/16 04:31 PM
            And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresDummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:46 PM
        And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresMaynard Handley2020/11/16 06:04 PM
          And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresDummond D. Slow2020/11/16 06:28 PM
  1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksRayla2020/11/16 03:16 PM
    1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksChester2020/11/16 08:17 PM
  Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchanon52020/11/20 10:51 AM
    Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchPer Hesselgren2020/11/24 09:04 AM
      Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchPaul2020/11/25 02:08 AM
        Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchPaul2020/11/25 02:12 AM
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