Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloads

By: Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar), November 18, 2020 7:44 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
rwessel (rwessel.delete@this.yahoo.com) on November 18, 2020 7:03 am wrote:
> Ignoring whether or not it makes sense for Apple to implement SMT, there appear to be a reasonable number of
> workloads that do work well with SMT. Commercial workloads, things like database engines, which net out to quite
> low effective IPCs compared to much of what's in SPEC. Hence IBM's fascination with SMT on POWER and Z.


Which are exactly the loads Apple doesn't care about since unlike Intel and AMD they don't sell commercial servers.

Which brings you back to the question that matters for Apple: How well SMT would do with workloads that their customers will run, especially the sort of stuff they do with phones and tablets (since that's what funds their leading edge core designs, not Macs)

While it might not be too hard to make an argument that SMT would benefit the Mac Pro, that's well under 1% of Apple's unit sales of phones/tablets/Macs. Given that the area penalty for adding SMT to the big cores is minimal I suppose that doesn't matter - just leave it disabled on the mobile stuff. But you're still incurring the design/verification cost (and potential additional support and reputational cost for security holes that SMT opens) for that relatively small market.

Moreover, do you get more "extra bang for the buck" spending power running a second thread on the big cores via SMT, or bringing the little cores into the mix when you want to add threads? Given what Andrei's figures show for the power draw of the M1's little cores, I'm not convinced SMT is a net power wise. If it doesn't make sense power win.

If so, then the only argument is that 4 big cores WITH SMT along with 4 little cores is faster than 4 big cores without SMT and 4 little cores. Which is obvious, but then you could add 4 more little cores, or one more big core, to reach that level of performance without all the extra design/verification/security headaches of SMT. Before someone says "but that costs more because the die is bigger", yes, but we're talking about increasing the M1's die size maybe 3% - and for something that will benefit ALL MT loads, not just the ones are helped by SMT.
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TopicPosted ByDate
1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksMaynard Handley2020/11/16 12:46 PM
  1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksAdrian2020/11/16 01:02 PM
    1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksI_vs2020/11/17 01:18 AM
  1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksRType2020/11/16 01:06 PM
    1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksMaynard Handley2020/11/16 01:45 PM
      And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresMaynard Handley2020/11/16 02:58 PM
        And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresWill2020/11/16 03:30 PM
          re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:06 PM
            re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 04:29 PM
              re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:51 PM
                re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 05:51 PM
                  re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 06:22 PM
                    re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 06:23 PM
                      re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 06:27 PM
                        re: "scaling"Dummond D. Slow2020/11/16 06:37 PM
                          re: "scaling"Chester2020/11/16 08:25 PM
                          Actual power consumption values.Dummond D. Slow2020/11/17 07:05 AM
                    re: "scaling"Doug S2020/11/17 10:25 AM
                      Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/17 11:18 AM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDoug S2020/11/17 12:21 PM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTblaine2020/11/19 05:18 PM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 05:31 PM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTTJ2020/11/18 01:10 AM
                          Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsAndrei F2020/11/18 05:21 AM
                            SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 07:02 AM
                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:17 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsnone2020/11/18 08:18 AM
                                  x264 without SIMD is nonsenseDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 08:31 AM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 09:13 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 09:21 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsWilco2020/11/18 09:42 AM
                                        role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 11:06 AM
                                          role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersdifferent anon2020/11/18 01:27 PM
                                            role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 02:47 PM
                                              role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersDummond D. Slow2021/05/18 12:29 PM
                                          role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersRichardC2020/11/18 03:42 PM
                                          role of hand-optimized assembly in multimedia encodersnone2020/11/19 07:17 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsnone2020/11/18 10:14 AM
                                        SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 11:17 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 11:03 AM
                                        SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 11:25 AM
                                          SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 12:03 PM
                                            SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 02:57 PM
                                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 04:36 PM
                                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 04:50 PM
                                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/19 09:13 AM
                                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloads-.-2020/11/19 02:34 PM
                                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 02:35 PM
                                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsEtienne Lorrain2020/11/19 04:04 AM
                                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 05:58 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 02:06 PM
                                  about bitratesDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:04 PM
                                    about bitratesChester2020/11/19 02:45 PM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsOok2020/11/18 03:05 PM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:21 PM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsNoSpammer2020/11/19 06:48 AM
                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAndrei F2020/11/18 07:44 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:48 AM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 08:15 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 08:41 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 09:04 AM
                                        SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 09:32 AM
                                          SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 10:26 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 09:22 AM
                                      SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAdrian2020/11/18 10:28 AM
                                  SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsAndrei F2020/11/18 08:34 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 09:00 AM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 02:18 PM
                                    SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsJukka Larja2020/11/20 08:03 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsChester2020/11/18 02:13 PM
                              SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsnone2020/11/18 08:07 AM
                                SPEC is NOT a representation of average workloadsMichael S2020/11/18 01:33 PM
                                  Interesting, thanks! (NT)none2020/11/19 07:03 AM
                            Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsrwessel2020/11/18 07:03 AM
                              Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/18 07:44 AM
                                Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:52 AM
                                  Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/18 02:59 PM
                                    Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:12 PM
                                      Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDoug S2020/11/19 09:19 AM
                                        Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 03:03 PM
                                          Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsUngo2020/11/19 08:12 PM
                                            Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsDummond D. Slow2020/11/20 08:45 AM
                                It's not really SMT or adding small coresDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:58 AM
                                  It's not really SMT or adding small coresDoug S2020/11/18 03:02 PM
                                    It's not really SMT or adding small coresDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:27 PM
                                Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsxyz2020/11/18 12:14 PM
                                  Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 12:54 PM
                                    Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsGabriele Svelto2020/11/18 01:41 PM
                                      Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsMaynard Handley2020/11/18 01:52 PM
                                        Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsGabriele Svelto2020/11/18 02:05 PM
                            Cinebench is NOT a representation of average workloadsTJ2020/11/18 11:46 AM
                            SMT shines in IO heavy & commercial DB workloadsxyz2020/11/18 12:05 PM
                            "Average workloads" don't exist (NT)Foo_2020/11/19 02:55 AM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 07:02 AM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/18 08:37 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 08:55 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDavid Hess2020/11/18 12:12 PM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/18 01:12 PM
                                  Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJörn Engel2020/11/18 04:04 PM
                                    Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTanonymou52020/11/18 04:37 PM
                                      Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJörn Engel2020/11/19 03:28 AM
                                  Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDavid Hess'2020/11/19 06:25 PM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/18 07:23 AM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTgallier22020/11/18 11:21 PM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJames2020/11/19 01:22 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTWilco2020/11/19 04:06 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTanonymou52020/11/19 01:34 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTgallier22020/11/19 08:04 AM
                                  big.LITTLE with different ISAsJames2020/11/19 08:41 AM
                                    big.LITTLE with different ISAsgallier22020/11/20 02:36 AM
                                    big.LITTLE with different ISAsanon2020/11/20 12:31 PM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/19 01:56 AM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJon Masters2020/11/18 11:46 AM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTanonymou52020/11/18 02:41 PM
                          Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/18 03:17 PM
                            Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/18 04:46 PM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTJon Masters2020/11/18 11:31 PM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 06:01 AM
                              Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/19 01:50 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTAdrian2020/11/19 02:10 AM
                                Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTMaynard Handley2020/11/19 09:13 AM
                                  Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTDummond D. Slow2020/11/19 03:10 PM
                        Apple loses a lot by not having turbo and SMTjuanrga2020/11/19 01:49 AM
                    re: "scaling"sr2020/11/17 11:39 AM
                      re: "scaling"Adrian2020/11/17 12:41 PM
                        re: "scaling"Adrian2020/11/17 12:52 PM
                          re: "scaling"Chester2020/11/17 05:29 PM
                  re: "scaling"anonymou52020/11/16 07:18 PM
                    re: "scaling"Maynard Handley2020/11/16 07:44 PM
        And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresDummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:12 PM
          And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresMaynard Handley2020/11/16 04:31 PM
            And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresDummond D. Slow2020/11/16 04:46 PM
        And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresMaynard Handley2020/11/16 06:04 PM
          And the NZ'ers are first to deliver cinebench scoresDummond D. Slow2020/11/16 06:28 PM
  1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksRayla2020/11/16 03:16 PM
    1st round of M1 GPU benchmarksChester2020/11/16 08:17 PM
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    Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchPer Hesselgren2020/11/24 09:04 AM
      Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchPaul2020/11/25 02:08 AM
        Phoronix Mac mini M1 benchPaul2020/11/25 02:12 AM
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