Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1

By: Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org), January 2, 2021 3:00 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us) on January 2, 2021 12:50 pm wrote:
> Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on January 2, 2021 2:45 am wrote:
> > Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on January 1, 2021 1:28 pm wrote:
> > >
> > > Now I have just replaced the 3700X with a 5900X, and ECC
> > > seems to work OK starting with the Linux kernel 5.10.
> > >
> > > However, I have not repeated yet the memory overclocking test with the new CPU, to see if the
> > > errors are really reported, but I intend to do it again when I will have some spare time.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think that it is interesting to mention that after finally having direct access
> > to a Zen 3 CPU, I have verified that is faster in single-thread than Apple M1.
> >
> > The Apple M1 was advantaged at launch, because the available benchmarks that could be compared with it
> > at that time were done poorly on Tiger Lake and Zen 3, making Apple M1 to appear better than it is.
> >
> > For example, Tiger Lake @ 4.8 GHz should reach a Geekbench 5 single-thread score
> > of around 1750, exactly the same as Apple M1 @ 3.2 GHz (up to 1752, many close to
> > 1750), if we extrapolate from the good scores recorded for Tiger Lake @ 4.7 GHz.
> >
> > However all the i7-1185G7 scores from the GB5 database are
> > much lower, lower than the good scores of the slower
> > i7-1165G7, so I believe that all the few existing laptop models that have i7-1185G7 suck badly and we will
> > see the actual speed of Tiger Lake @ 4.8 GHz only when the
> > Intel NUC with it will be available, in a few months
> > (even Intel is expected to launch first an Intel NUC with i7-1165G7, unlike in the past when they used only
> > the top speed for themselves; so they must still have serious yield problems with the top SKU).
> >
> >
> > So for Intel Tiger Lake there is no direct proof yet, about how exactly it is positioned against Apple M1.
> >
> > On the other hand, at the Apple M1 launch there were only poor benchmarks
> > done on Zen 3, so it seemed slower in single-thread than M1.
> >
> > Meanwhile many better benchmarks have accumulated for Zen 3 (a lot of GB5 ST
> > scores over 1800 at the nominal clock frequencies) and I now have my own sample,
> > so I could verify that the high Zen 3 scores are the correct scores.
> >
>
> Did you run on Linux? (I assume yes).
> Also, how good was your RAM? I wonder how much that influences the GB5
> result, given how absurdly variable they are for the same CPUs.
>


Yes, I run Linux and most GB5 Linux scores are indeed typically higher than almost all Windows scores, especially for single-thread, even if, for most CPUs, there are also a few Windows scores in the range of the Linux scores.

While the real cause for this is unknown, my opinion is that this is due to the lack of control in Windows of which programs run on the computer. There are a myriad of Windows services that wake up and run whenever they desire, without control from the computer owner and also various other extra junk services, e.g. anti-viruses or telemetry programs.

I believe that these Windows services interfere randomly with the single-threaded benchmarks, while on a well-configured Linux you may be certain enough that you will have not have undesirable daemons running when you do not want them to run. This is consistent with the fact that I have also seen a few high Windows scores, with values similar to the Linux scores.

My memory is very slow, DDR4-2667, because the upgraded computer was built in 2019, when there were no faster ECC UDIMMs. Now DDR4-3200 ECC UDIMMs have appeared, but I have not upgraded the memory yet.

As it is well known, Ryzen is particularly sensitive to memory speed, because the communication links between chiplets run at the memory speed.

I assume that due to the very slow memory, my own GB5 score was only 1790 @ 4.8 GHz (frequency from the .gb5 file), while I have seen a lot of other Linux GB5 scores above 1800 and up to 1876. Moreover, when comparing with the other higher Zen 3 GB5 scores, many subtests were the same, just a few tests were lower on my sample, e.g. the encryption test, and that is consistent with the supposition that my score was lowered by the slow memory.

Nevertheless even my score, which is low for a Ryzen 9 5900X under Linux, due to the slow memory, was significantly higher than the best Apple M1 score, which is 1752.


On Ryzen, an extra cause for variability is the core on which GB5 happens to run the tests. I do not know how the core is selected, but I do not believe that the best core is chosen, at least on Linux. On my CPU, the best 2 or 3 cores have single-thread frequencies between 4.85 and 4.95 GHz, depending on core temperature, while the slowest cores have frequencies between 4.75 and 4.85 GHz, so I believe that the GB5 test happened to run in my case on one of the slower cores of my CPU, while the fastest GB5 results from the database have been run on fast cores, mostly at 4.9 or 4.95 GHz, or even up to 5.05 GHz on a 5950X.

I believe that GB5 pins the tests to a single core, because the clock frequency is constant during the tests, but I am not aware if there is any method on Linux to determine automatically which are the fastest cores. I know that there is some support for the Intel Turbo 3.0, which works similarly for Intel, but even for Intel I do not know if the existing Linux support provides a way to discover which are the fastest cores.

On Linux, with the default scheduler, if you do not pin explicitly a process to a core, it is migrated randomly across all cores, so on Ryzen the clock frequency would change whenever passing to a new core, because each core might have a different maximum turbo clock frequency.




> IRRC GB5 scores way higher on MacOS and it is also scoring higher on the same hardware under
> Linux compared to Windows. The reviews of M1 generally compared MacOS result to AMD/Intel
> result under Windows - a mistake arguably, making M1 looking faster than it really is.
>
>
> > Therefore now it is clear that a desktop Zen 3 is faster in single-thread
> > than Apple M1 (obviously at a much greater power per core, of over 20 W).
> >
> >
> > For example, in GB5 ST, Zen 3 is faster by about 2% @ 4.8 GHz (e.g. 1790
> > vs. 1752) and up to about 7% @ 5.05 GHz (over 1850, up to 1876).
> >
> > In computational benchmarks where the number and speed of the available execution resources matter
> > most, unlike in GB5 or SPEC, where the higher *average* IPC of Apple shines, the advantage of Zen
> > 3 over Apple M1 increases, being e.g. of over 14% @ 4.9 GHz for gmpbench (7337 vs. 6422).
> >
>

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TopicPosted ByDate
Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/29 06:12 AM
  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2020/12/29 08:31 AM
    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Dummond D. Slow2020/12/29 11:33 AM
      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/29 05:09 PM
        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Dummond D. Slow2020/12/29 07:00 PM
          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor anon2020/12/30 03:50 AM
          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Foo_2020/12/30 03:50 AM
            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/30 06:22 AM
              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/30 06:25 AM
              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2020/12/30 07:00 AM
            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2020/12/30 01:00 PM
              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/31 07:45 AM
                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2020/12/31 10:49 AM
                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2020/12/31 01:05 PM
                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2020/12/31 05:56 PM
                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Anon2020/12/31 06:48 PM
                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2021/01/01 05:06 AM
                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/01 08:10 AM
                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/01 08:37 AM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 11:52 AM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/01 01:48 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 11:28 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/02 01:21 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 02:17 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Anon2021/01/02 07:08 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/03 12:10 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/03 02:03 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/03 04:28 AM
                                  Threadrippers do have official ECC supportJukka Larja2021/01/03 09:32 PM
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                                ECC (or lack of)Tim McCaffrey2021/01/03 10:28 AM
                                  ECC (or lack of)Adrian2021/01/03 02:14 PM
                                    ECC (or lack of)Yuhong Bao2021/01/03 02:51 PM
                                      ECC (or lack of)Yuhong Bao2021/01/04 07:54 PM
                                        ECC (or lack of)Yuhong Bao2021/01/04 08:04 PM
                                AMD ECC not enabled but says it isIan Cutress2021/01/03 12:09 PM
                                  AMD ECC not enabled but says it isMaxwell2021/01/03 01:28 PM
                                  AMD ECC not enabled but says it isAdrian2021/01/03 01:50 PM
                                    AMD ECC not enabled but says it isGabriele Svelto2021/01/03 02:08 PM
                                      AMD ECC not enabled but says it isAdrian2021/01/03 02:34 PM
                                        AMD ECC not enabled but says it isDan Strother2021/01/03 08:00 PM
                                          AMD ECC not enabled but says it isMatt2021/01/04 01:29 AM
                                          AMD ECC not enabled but says it isGabriele Svelto2021/01/04 02:29 AM
                                            AMD ECC not enabled but says it isMatt2021/01/04 01:39 PM
                                          AMD ECC not enabled but says it isAdrian2021/01/04 06:49 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/04 02:44 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Brett2021/01/04 06:08 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/05 01:29 PM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/05 02:08 PM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Emil Briggs2021/01/05 05:40 PM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/06 02:12 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor [ECC summary - Suitable for framing]Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/05 07:29 PM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor 2021/01/06 10:45 AM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/06 12:38 PM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Emanuel Rylke2021/01/07 01:49 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jörn Engel2021/01/07 10:05 AM
                                            Read Only Page CorrectionsTerry Gray2021/01/07 10:47 AM
                                              Read Only Page Correctionsrwessel2021/01/07 12:00 PM
                                                Read Only Page CorrectionsTerry Gray2021/01/07 12:58 PM
                                              Read Only Page CorrectionsDavid Hess2021/01/10 08:37 PM
                                              Read Only Page Correctionsdmcq2021/01/11 04:32 AM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Chester2021/01/07 06:00 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/07 06:33 AM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Michael S2021/01/07 09:05 AM
                                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/07 11:26 AM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/07 10:06 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/07 11:04 AM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Chester2021/01/07 05:19 PM
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                                                OT L1 chache ECCAdrian2021/01/08 09:54 AM
                                                  OT L1 chache ECCDavid Kanter2021/01/08 10:13 AM
                                                    Structure ProtectionsChester2021/01/08 03:14 PM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Etienne Lorrain2021/01/08 02:18 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/07 06:42 PM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Chester2021/01/07 09:14 PM
                                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/07 09:26 PM
                                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Michael S2021/01/08 03:49 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/14 08:32 AM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/15 06:26 AM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/16 11:45 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/16 01:27 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Etienne Lorrain2021/01/07 02:21 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor anon2021/01/07 03:21 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Etienne Lorrain2021/01/07 04:22 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Konrad Schwarz2021/01/07 06:27 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/07 05:22 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/07 10:25 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jörn Engel2021/01/07 05:29 PM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/07 07:47 PM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/11 05:26 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/11 06:25 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/11 08:24 AM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Mark Roulo2021/01/07 08:00 PM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/07 08:20 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/11 05:16 AM
                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 11:43 AM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/01 01:31 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Dan Strother2021/01/01 02:12 PM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/01 02:28 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Adrian2021/01/02 03:45 AM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Dummond D. Slow2021/01/02 01:50 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Adrian2021/01/02 03:00 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Dummond D. Slow2021/01/04 01:11 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Dummond D. Slow2021/01/07 11:43 AM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Adrian2021/01/08 09:28 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1 Sorry, typo, correction hereAdrian2021/01/08 09:31 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1 (vs. Rocket Lake)Dummond D. Slow2021/01/22 08:02 AM
                            isn't that an interesting contradiction?hobold2021/01/08 01:44 PM
                              isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 02:27 PM
                              isn't that an interesting contradiction?Adrian2021/01/08 03:21 PM
                                isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 04:59 PM
                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 05:34 PM
                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 05:34 PM
                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 05:35 PM
                                      isn't that an interesting contradiction?Adrian2021/01/09 01:55 AM
                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction?Adrian2021/01/09 01:48 AM
                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/09 09:00 AM
                                      isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpnone2021/01/11 02:26 AM
                                        isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/11 05:34 AM
                                          Fully agree with you, I was just giving some data :-) (NT)none2021/01/11 06:17 AM
                                          isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpanon2021/01/11 01:09 PM
                                            isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/12 01:54 AM
                                              isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpnone2021/01/12 02:15 AM
                                                isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/12 04:37 AM
                                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpnone2021/01/12 04:53 AM
                                                    uses of int multiplyhobold2021/01/12 03:51 PM
                                                      uses of int multiplynone2021/01/13 02:11 AM
                                                      uses of int multiplyJörn Engel2021/01/13 01:06 PM
                                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpWilco2021/01/12 05:17 AM
                                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/12 06:07 AM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/01 04:31 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 10:58 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/02 06:51 AM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 08:57 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2021/01/02 05:30 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 11:43 PM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/01 09:41 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 10:53 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 02:03 AM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 08:39 AM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 01:52 AM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2021/01/02 06:56 AM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Michael S2021/01/02 12:41 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 01:43 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 11:50 PM
                          Crucial/Micron ECC UDIMMsGabriele Svelto2021/01/02 07:09 AM
                            Crucial/Micron ECC UDIMMsMaxwell2021/01/02 10:45 AM
                              Crucial/Micron ECC UDIMMsYuhong Bao2021/01/02 07:29 PM
                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112021/01/03 08:46 AM
  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor H_Heckuba2021/01/03 01:06 PM
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