By: Phil995511 (phil995511.delete@this.gmail.com), January 3, 2021 8:46 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org) on December 31, 2020 12:05 pm wrote:
> Phil995511 (phil995511.delete@this.gmail.com) on December 31, 2020 6:45 am wrote:
> >
> > For me, the ecological aspect is also important. I prefer to favor a "green" CPU with
> > high energy efficiency rather than a CPU which is an energy vampire difficult to cool...
> > Yes Threadrippers are at 280W of TDP vs 105 Watts of TDP for the Ryzen 9 5950X.
>
> If you actually need the CPU power, the Threadripper is likely the more ecological choice. Sure.
> it's higher power, it's harder to cool, but if you get twice the cores and actually use them...
>
> > The other thing that bothers me with the Threadrippers is that they seem to be equivalent
> > to the Xeons from Intel
>
> No. I used to look at the Xeon CPU's, and I could never really make the math work.
> The Intel math was basically that you get twice the CPU for five times the price.
> So for my personal workstations, I ended up using Intel consumer CPU's.
>
> The AMD Threadripper pricing is much closer to "twice the price for twice the CPU". Yes, you end up paying more
> for the accoutrements (MB and cooling), but that's pretty much in line too. So yes, it ends up being more expensive,
> but if CPU power is what you want and need, the expense is pretty much in line with what you get.
>
> AMD has their actual server CPU line too, and you do pay more for that privilege, but at least
> AMD doesn't try to screw you over and limit their non-server parts. So you do get ECC for Threadripper
> (and plain Ryzen) too, even if it's not necessarily "officially verified".
>
> I'm personally very happy with AMD these days. I used to absolutely despise their horrible bulldozer
> cores, but I think they've had a home run with their Ryzen series and their chiplet approach. Not
> just because they fixed their cores, but because their chiplets made it so much easier to do the
> scaling they do and offer close to that "twice the cores for twice the price" model.
>
> Intel with their HEDT and Xeon chips that required different boutique silicon (and thus the excessive
> pricing) is dead to me unless they seriously fix their sh*t. I've been complaining about their ECC
> policies here on this forum for about two decades by now. Good effing riddance - because once Intel
> stopped offering the best bang, there was absolutely no advantage to staying with them.
>
> Linus
I have very little experience with AMD, I tested at the time for a few days an AMD i486 @ 100 Mhz which was less powerful than my Intel i486 DX2 @ 66 Mhz. I also remember my friends who bought the AMD Athlon in the 2000s which was very powerful but heated a lot...
Today we have liquid cooling for CPU's, but I prefer cooling the CPU's by fans. Liquid cooling requires too much maintenance and seems too risky for the components in the event of a liquid leak. I saw a very interesting video of a Peltier prototype by Intel, unfortunately not currently compatible with Linux and it consumes a lot too power (338 Watts maximum dissipable for a electric consumption of 220 Watts).
https://youtu.be/R2MtHJctd-0
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/317189-ekwb-launches-peltier-cooler-powered-by-intel-cryo-cooling-technology#:~:text=Maximum%20cooling%20power%20provided%20by,raw%20heat%20it%20can%20handle.
A CPU consumption of more than 180 Watts for a workstation seems to me ethically too high... I am not a supporter of overconsumption, from nuclear power plants, coal-fired power stations, etc. In Europe, we are trying to develop responsible and sustainable energy policies, the choices carried out by manufacturers and individuals in the development and acquisition of equipment alike have an impact on the feasibility of this policy.
The fact that you have adopted AMD guarantees us a Kernel optimized for these processors, it helps us to take the step towards the acquisition of equipment of this brand :) And from a technological point of view, they are the ones who have the leadership now, while keeping prices attractive... It's a good time to renew your machine without spending too much.
I have moral trouble with STRX4 motherboards whose chipsets are cooled and by fans ;-( I prefer passive and silent cooling for this. It is essentially for this reason that I chose an AM4 platform and that I hope the arrival of 24 or 32 core processors on AM4.
If I compare the performance of the AMD AM4 3950x processors to that of the Threadripper 2950X and Threadripper ™ 3960X, I think the 3950x performs really well, even though it only has 2 simultaneous channels of RAM access....
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=+Ryzen%E2%84%A2+9+5950X
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?q=AMD+Ryzen%E2%84%A2+Threadripper+2950X
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?q=AMD+Ryzen%E2%84%A2+Threadripper%E2%84%A2+3960X
I too take a dim view of ECC memory due mainly to the pricing policy attached to it...
ARM makes us all dream, my little RPi4 under Raspbian OS x64 works really well. I dare to hope that the CPU's Ampere (as well as others) will succeed in making a place for itself in the very closed market of workstation processors !! This will give us the computing power that ARM currently lacks.
https://amperecomputing.com/altra/
Regards.
Philippe
> Phil995511 (phil995511.delete@this.gmail.com) on December 31, 2020 6:45 am wrote:
> >
> > For me, the ecological aspect is also important. I prefer to favor a "green" CPU with
> > high energy efficiency rather than a CPU which is an energy vampire difficult to cool...
> > Yes Threadrippers are at 280W of TDP vs 105 Watts of TDP for the Ryzen 9 5950X.
>
> If you actually need the CPU power, the Threadripper is likely the more ecological choice. Sure.
> it's higher power, it's harder to cool, but if you get twice the cores and actually use them...
>
> > The other thing that bothers me with the Threadrippers is that they seem to be equivalent
> > to the Xeons from Intel
>
> No. I used to look at the Xeon CPU's, and I could never really make the math work.
> The Intel math was basically that you get twice the CPU for five times the price.
> So for my personal workstations, I ended up using Intel consumer CPU's.
>
> The AMD Threadripper pricing is much closer to "twice the price for twice the CPU". Yes, you end up paying more
> for the accoutrements (MB and cooling), but that's pretty much in line too. So yes, it ends up being more expensive,
> but if CPU power is what you want and need, the expense is pretty much in line with what you get.
>
> AMD has their actual server CPU line too, and you do pay more for that privilege, but at least
> AMD doesn't try to screw you over and limit their non-server parts. So you do get ECC for Threadripper
> (and plain Ryzen) too, even if it's not necessarily "officially verified".
>
> I'm personally very happy with AMD these days. I used to absolutely despise their horrible bulldozer
> cores, but I think they've had a home run with their Ryzen series and their chiplet approach. Not
> just because they fixed their cores, but because their chiplets made it so much easier to do the
> scaling they do and offer close to that "twice the cores for twice the price" model.
>
> Intel with their HEDT and Xeon chips that required different boutique silicon (and thus the excessive
> pricing) is dead to me unless they seriously fix their sh*t. I've been complaining about their ECC
> policies here on this forum for about two decades by now. Good effing riddance - because once Intel
> stopped offering the best bang, there was absolutely no advantage to staying with them.
>
> Linus
I have very little experience with AMD, I tested at the time for a few days an AMD i486 @ 100 Mhz which was less powerful than my Intel i486 DX2 @ 66 Mhz. I also remember my friends who bought the AMD Athlon in the 2000s which was very powerful but heated a lot...
Today we have liquid cooling for CPU's, but I prefer cooling the CPU's by fans. Liquid cooling requires too much maintenance and seems too risky for the components in the event of a liquid leak. I saw a very interesting video of a Peltier prototype by Intel, unfortunately not currently compatible with Linux and it consumes a lot too power (338 Watts maximum dissipable for a electric consumption of 220 Watts).
https://youtu.be/R2MtHJctd-0
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/317189-ekwb-launches-peltier-cooler-powered-by-intel-cryo-cooling-technology#:~:text=Maximum%20cooling%20power%20provided%20by,raw%20heat%20it%20can%20handle.
A CPU consumption of more than 180 Watts for a workstation seems to me ethically too high... I am not a supporter of overconsumption, from nuclear power plants, coal-fired power stations, etc. In Europe, we are trying to develop responsible and sustainable energy policies, the choices carried out by manufacturers and individuals in the development and acquisition of equipment alike have an impact on the feasibility of this policy.
The fact that you have adopted AMD guarantees us a Kernel optimized for these processors, it helps us to take the step towards the acquisition of equipment of this brand :) And from a technological point of view, they are the ones who have the leadership now, while keeping prices attractive... It's a good time to renew your machine without spending too much.
I have moral trouble with STRX4 motherboards whose chipsets are cooled and by fans ;-( I prefer passive and silent cooling for this. It is essentially for this reason that I chose an AM4 platform and that I hope the arrival of 24 or 32 core processors on AM4.
If I compare the performance of the AMD AM4 3950x processors to that of the Threadripper 2950X and Threadripper ™ 3960X, I think the 3950x performs really well, even though it only has 2 simultaneous channels of RAM access....
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=+Ryzen%E2%84%A2+9+5950X
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?q=AMD+Ryzen%E2%84%A2+Threadripper+2950X
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?q=AMD+Ryzen%E2%84%A2+Threadripper%E2%84%A2+3960X
I too take a dim view of ECC memory due mainly to the pricing policy attached to it...
ARM makes us all dream, my little RPi4 under Raspbian OS x64 works really well. I dare to hope that the CPU's Ampere (as well as others) will succeed in making a place for itself in the very closed market of workstation processors !! This will give us the computing power that ARM currently lacks.
https://amperecomputing.com/altra/
Regards.
Philippe
