Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org) on January 5, 2021 12:29 pm wrote:
> Jason Snyder (jmcsnyder.delete@this.hotmail.com) on January 4, 2021 1:44 pm wrote:
> > I was kind of surprised when Linus Torvalds went for a Threadripper with only ECC UDIMM support
> > (with UDIMMS being so hard to find) and the other Linus (Sebastian) didn't even use ECC RAM when
> > building the system for Torvalds.
>
> I want to clarify something that you - and a lot of other commenters - don't seem to get.
>
> I do not care very much about whether my system has ECC or not. That's not the issue.
> If I have memory errors, I am actually tech savvy enough to figure them out. Plus I end
> up using fairly "safe" machines - I make sure my power delivery is over-specced, I live
> basically at sea level, I don't overclock anything, and I buy reputable stuff.
>
> In fact, I personally don't rally want to have anything at all to do with "special
> hardware". I'm a huge believer in the mass market. I don't want custom machines.
> Yes, I end up going fairly high-end, but I want a high-end normal machine.
>
> So my personal machine is actually the least of my problems. People who think
> this is some kind of private and personal "I'm special, and I need ECC" are
> completely and utterly misguided, and don't understand the problem.
>
> The problem is that Intel's policies have made ECC so rare in the mass market.
> Even people who would like to use it are effectively kept from using it because
> it's not worth the special hardware and limitations that it involves.
>
> So repeat after me: "Linus' personal machine doesn't matter - the overall market does".
>
> I've seen some ridiculous garbage in this thread, like "gamers don't want ECC". That's total drivel. Gamers
> that build high-end gaming workstations for overclocking should be some of the main target of ECC, because
> without ECC you don't really know if - and how high - you can safely overclock your RAM.
>
> ECC is safer under normal circumstances, but it also allows you to do more and live
> on the edge more, in other words. You can actually see when you're getting too close
> to the edge when the machine starts reporting a lot of correctable errors!
>
> Or at least, that's how it should work. But if the market has been told "only servers use
> ECC", then what happens is that ECC memory isn't for people who want to live on the edge, instead
> it's sold as de-rated for all those boring people who want to run databases. Ugh.
>
> So now that stupid "ECC is for servers" fairy tale means that gamers can't find the high-frequency
> ECC they want, so they skip it - even if they otherwise had a machine that could do it.
>
> See? It's about the market.
>
> And those high-end gamers already spend extra on motherboards and blinky lights and cool cases (in
> both senses of "cool"), and they have absolutely no reason not to spend an extra 12% or whatever on
> ECC DRAM. They'd probably gobble it up, if it was just available. But ECC UDIMM's traditionally were
> in the really boring categories, certainly not in the "overclockable DDR4-3200" kind of thing.
>
> So high-end PC gamers are a prime example of people who should actually want ECC, but the
> whole idiotic "ECC is only for serious people" mantra is a disease that has taken its mental
> toll on people in addition to skewing the market in completely the wrong way. And so in this
> very thread, I saw somebody mention gamers as somebody who wouldn't want ECC.
>
> Pure and utter drivel.
>
> And an example of that whole crazy mindset - and market - that Intel and others have fostered.
>
> Please, people. Stop spreading those fairy tales. The only reason Intel says "ECC is for servers and embedded"
> is because Intel marketing people have convinced the powers that be that they can sell otherwise inferior
> chips for a higher price by enabling ECC functionality. Look at the kinds of chips that Intel sells with ECC
> - those Xeons (and embedded Core i3 Atom class CPUs) sure don't tend to be better in other ways.
>
> Don't fall for the bullshit. ECC is not for servers. ECC is for everybody, and wanting
> to pay a bit extra for RAM shouldn't mean that you are then limited in other ways.
>
> Linus

This is the best summary of the sorry state of things ECC on the desktop. It's suitable for framing and hanging on a wall.

Thanks Linus!