Ryzen 9 5000 series processor

By: Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com), January 8, 2021 3:49 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Björn Ragnar Björnsson (bjorn.ragnar.delete@this.gmail.com) on January 7, 2021 8:26 pm wrote:
> Chester (lamchester.delete@this.gmail.com) on January 7, 2021 8:14 pm wrote:
> > > How is that going to help? Refreshing the memory will just
> > > "refresh" the flipped bits and you won't know a thing.
> >
> > No, not software refresh. I'm talking about refreshing the charge in DRAM cell capacitors.
> > Rowhammer can happen because accessing adjacent cells can cause a cell's charge to leak faster.
> > If enough of it leaks before a charge refresh, you get a
> > bit flip. Read https://arxiv.org/pdf/1904.09724.pdf
> > for more details, in the 'Rowhammer Mechanisms' section.
>
> I wasn't talking about software refresh, but well put and point taken which I presume to be that it takes less
> to flip bit when the capacitor supporting it is nearly exhausted. So, I stand corrected at least in part.
>
> > > Currently some RAM manufactures are offering LPDDR4 modules with on-board ECC and from
> > > what I've seen it is mandatory for DDR5/LPDDR5. The intent of ECC in these instances
> > > is not to increase overall memory reliability/resiliency but to enable reduced power
> > > consumption partly through lessened refresh rates. Back to square one. Sheesh!
> >
> > I think that's asking for trouble.
> >
> > By the way, DRAM manufacturers have also tried targeted
> > row refresh in hopes of mitigating rowhammer without
> > tightening global refresh timings. But researchers have figured out ways past that too. Depending on the
> > specific implementation of targeted row refresh, you can sometimes cause bit flips by hammering more rows.
>
> Asking for trouble indeed. I'm incensed how brazenly the big pictures is being lost
> at the expense of customers, users and society as a whole. Using error correction
> to reduce fundamental resiliency rather than building reliability on top of it.
>

In principle, there is nothing wrong with that.
The whole wireless (and increasingly wired) communication industry is built on similar ideas - symbol-level transmission uses very low power (and thus low signal-to-noise ratio) to achieve non-error-free communication link and then the next layer applies FEC over it. It is proven best way to approach a Shannon limit, esp. if one uses turbo-codes or LDPC.

Pretty much the same applies to NAND flashes, except that in this case optimization target is density rather than low power.

The difference vs DRAM is that in case of DRAM, because of requirements of low latency, manufacturer can't use very advanced correction codes that approach theoretical limits (I don't know a name for equivalent of Shannon limit for storage). And with relatively primitive error correction methods that are compatible with small blocks/low latency, it's less obvious that there is really a gain.

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Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/29 06:12 AM
  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2020/12/29 08:31 AM
    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Dummond D. Slow2020/12/29 11:33 AM
      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/29 05:09 PM
        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Dummond D. Slow2020/12/29 07:00 PM
          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor anon2020/12/30 03:50 AM
          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Foo_2020/12/30 03:50 AM
            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/30 06:22 AM
              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/30 06:25 AM
              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2020/12/30 07:00 AM
            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2020/12/30 01:00 PM
              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112020/12/31 07:45 AM
                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2020/12/31 10:49 AM
                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2020/12/31 01:05 PM
                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2020/12/31 05:56 PM
                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Anon2020/12/31 06:48 PM
                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2021/01/01 05:06 AM
                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/01 08:10 AM
                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/01 08:37 AM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 11:52 AM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/01 01:48 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 11:28 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/02 01:21 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 02:17 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Anon2021/01/02 07:08 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/03 12:10 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/03 02:03 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/03 04:28 AM
                                  Threadrippers do have official ECC supportJukka Larja2021/01/03 09:32 PM
                                    Threadrippers do have official ECC supportBjörn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/04 09:21 AM
                                ECC (or lack of)Tim McCaffrey2021/01/03 10:28 AM
                                  ECC (or lack of)Adrian2021/01/03 02:14 PM
                                    ECC (or lack of)Yuhong Bao2021/01/03 02:51 PM
                                      ECC (or lack of)Yuhong Bao2021/01/04 07:54 PM
                                        ECC (or lack of)Yuhong Bao2021/01/04 08:04 PM
                                AMD ECC not enabled but says it isIan Cutress2021/01/03 12:09 PM
                                  AMD ECC not enabled but says it isMaxwell2021/01/03 01:28 PM
                                  AMD ECC not enabled but says it isAdrian2021/01/03 01:50 PM
                                    AMD ECC not enabled but says it isGabriele Svelto2021/01/03 02:08 PM
                                      AMD ECC not enabled but says it isAdrian2021/01/03 02:34 PM
                                        AMD ECC not enabled but says it isDan Strother2021/01/03 08:00 PM
                                          AMD ECC not enabled but says it isMatt2021/01/04 01:29 AM
                                          AMD ECC not enabled but says it isGabriele Svelto2021/01/04 02:29 AM
                                            AMD ECC not enabled but says it isMatt2021/01/04 01:39 PM
                                          AMD ECC not enabled but says it isAdrian2021/01/04 06:49 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/04 02:44 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Brett2021/01/04 06:08 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/05 01:29 PM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/05 02:08 PM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Emil Briggs2021/01/05 05:40 PM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/06 02:12 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor [ECC summary - Suitable for framing]Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/05 07:29 PM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor 2021/01/06 10:45 AM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/06 12:38 PM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Emanuel Rylke2021/01/07 01:49 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jörn Engel2021/01/07 10:05 AM
                                            Read Only Page CorrectionsTerry Gray2021/01/07 10:47 AM
                                              Read Only Page Correctionsrwessel2021/01/07 12:00 PM
                                                Read Only Page CorrectionsTerry Gray2021/01/07 12:58 PM
                                              Read Only Page CorrectionsDavid Hess2021/01/10 08:37 PM
                                              Read Only Page Correctionsdmcq2021/01/11 04:32 AM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Chester2021/01/07 06:00 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/07 06:33 AM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Michael S2021/01/07 09:05 AM
                                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/07 11:26 AM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/07 10:06 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Linus Torvalds2021/01/07 11:04 AM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Chester2021/01/07 05:19 PM
                                              OT L1 chache ECCMichael S2021/01/08 03:31 AM
                                                OT L1 chache ECCAdrian2021/01/08 09:54 AM
                                                  OT L1 chache ECCDavid Kanter2021/01/08 10:13 AM
                                                    Structure ProtectionsChester2021/01/08 03:14 PM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Etienne Lorrain2021/01/08 02:18 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/07 06:42 PM
                                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Chester2021/01/07 09:14 PM
                                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/07 09:26 PM
                                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Michael S2021/01/08 03:49 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/14 08:32 AM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/15 06:26 AM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/16 11:45 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jason Snyder2021/01/16 01:27 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Etienne Lorrain2021/01/07 02:21 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor anon2021/01/07 03:21 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Etienne Lorrain2021/01/07 04:22 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Konrad Schwarz2021/01/07 06:27 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/07 05:22 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/07 10:25 AM
                                    Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jörn Engel2021/01/07 05:29 PM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/07 07:47 PM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/11 05:26 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/11 06:25 AM
                                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor rwessel2021/01/11 08:24 AM
                                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Mark Roulo2021/01/07 08:00 PM
                                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/07 08:20 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/11 05:16 AM
                      Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 11:43 AM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor David Hess2021/01/01 01:31 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Dan Strother2021/01/01 02:12 PM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/01 02:28 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Adrian2021/01/02 03:45 AM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Dummond D. Slow2021/01/02 01:50 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Adrian2021/01/02 03:00 PM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Dummond D. Slow2021/01/04 01:11 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Dummond D. Slow2021/01/07 11:43 AM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1Adrian2021/01/08 09:28 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1 Sorry, typo, correction hereAdrian2021/01/08 09:31 AM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor vs. M1 (vs. Rocket Lake)Dummond D. Slow2021/01/22 08:02 AM
                            isn't that an interesting contradiction?hobold2021/01/08 01:44 PM
                              isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 02:27 PM
                              isn't that an interesting contradiction?Adrian2021/01/08 03:21 PM
                                isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 04:59 PM
                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 05:34 PM
                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 05:34 PM
                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction?Maynard Handley2021/01/08 05:35 PM
                                      isn't that an interesting contradiction?Adrian2021/01/09 01:55 AM
                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction?Adrian2021/01/09 01:48 AM
                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/09 09:00 AM
                                      isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpnone2021/01/11 02:26 AM
                                        isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/11 05:34 AM
                                          Fully agree with you, I was just giving some data :-) (NT)none2021/01/11 06:17 AM
                                          isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpanon2021/01/11 01:09 PM
                                            isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/12 01:54 AM
                                              isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpnone2021/01/12 02:15 AM
                                                isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/12 04:37 AM
                                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpnone2021/01/12 04:53 AM
                                                    uses of int multiplyhobold2021/01/12 03:51 PM
                                                      uses of int multiplynone2021/01/13 02:11 AM
                                                      uses of int multiplyJörn Engel2021/01/13 01:06 PM
                                                  isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpWilco2021/01/12 05:17 AM
                                                    isn't that an interesting contradiction? - gmpAdrian2021/01/12 06:07 AM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/01 04:31 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 10:58 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Gabriele Svelto2021/01/02 06:51 AM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 08:57 AM
                                Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2021/01/02 05:30 PM
                                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 11:43 PM
                        Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Björn Ragnar Björnsson2021/01/01 09:41 PM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/01 10:53 PM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 02:03 AM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 08:39 AM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 01:52 AM
                          Ryzen 9 5000 series processor me2021/01/02 06:56 AM
                            Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Michael S2021/01/02 12:41 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Adrian2021/01/02 01:43 PM
                              Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Jukka Larja2021/01/02 11:50 PM
                          Crucial/Micron ECC UDIMMsGabriele Svelto2021/01/02 07:09 AM
                            Crucial/Micron ECC UDIMMsMaxwell2021/01/02 10:45 AM
                              Crucial/Micron ECC UDIMMsYuhong Bao2021/01/02 07:29 PM
                  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor Phil9955112021/01/03 08:46 AM
  Ryzen 9 5000 series processor H_Heckuba2021/01/03 01:06 PM
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