By: dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk), March 17, 2021 7:00 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Jukka Larja (roskakori2006.delete@this.gmail.com) on March 17, 2021 3:42 am wrote:
> dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on March 16, 2021 4:06 pm wrote:
> > Jukka Larja (roskakori2006.delete@this.gmail.com) on March 16, 2021 11:22 am wrote:
> > > dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on March 16, 2021 9:17 am wrote:
> > >
> > > > However then I go on to
> > > > wondering what kind of thing would mean that we didn't have megabytes of code in the kernel and yet could
> > > > do things as efficiently or better and support most current programs without disruptive changes? As far
> > > > as I can see if you want to avoid copying lots of data it seems capabilities are the way - that brings
> > > > other problems of course but I think they would be easier to manage and contain.
> > >
> > > Do you honestly think OS kernels are the most relevant (or even very relevant) security issue
> > > we are dealing with? I'm not an expert, but seems to me that just about all newsworthy security
> > > issues (that aren't about hardware) are not kernel related. Personally I'm mostly worried about
> > > stuff that will happily run with user privileges, e.g. inside a browser or email client.
> > >
> > > -JLarja
> >
> > Ah the good old appeal to worse problems.
>
> Hey, I'm not telling you not go and develop a micro-kernel OS. But it sounds to me like you think not having
> one is a big problem that should be fixed ASAP. That with micro-kernel OS some major part of security problems
> would be gone. Maybe I just misunderstood you (your writing is pretty hard to comprehend for large parts).
>
> -JLarja
Yes I think we should be doing that but I think it needs hardware support and is a long term job. I don't see that it conflicts with other work much and I think it would make some tasks easier and more efficient at user level too.
I'm sorry you find difficulty with what I write. Others have said that and I do try but succeeding is a different thing unfortunately.
> dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on March 16, 2021 4:06 pm wrote:
> > Jukka Larja (roskakori2006.delete@this.gmail.com) on March 16, 2021 11:22 am wrote:
> > > dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on March 16, 2021 9:17 am wrote:
> > >
> > > > However then I go on to
> > > > wondering what kind of thing would mean that we didn't have megabytes of code in the kernel and yet could
> > > > do things as efficiently or better and support most current programs without disruptive changes? As far
> > > > as I can see if you want to avoid copying lots of data it seems capabilities are the way - that brings
> > > > other problems of course but I think they would be easier to manage and contain.
> > >
> > > Do you honestly think OS kernels are the most relevant (or even very relevant) security issue
> > > we are dealing with? I'm not an expert, but seems to me that just about all newsworthy security
> > > issues (that aren't about hardware) are not kernel related. Personally I'm mostly worried about
> > > stuff that will happily run with user privileges, e.g. inside a browser or email client.
> > >
> > > -JLarja
> >
> > Ah the good old appeal to worse problems.
>
> Hey, I'm not telling you not go and develop a micro-kernel OS. But it sounds to me like you think not having
> one is a big problem that should be fixed ASAP. That with micro-kernel OS some major part of security problems
> would be gone. Maybe I just misunderstood you (your writing is pretty hard to comprehend for large parts).
>
> -JLarja
Yes I think we should be doing that but I think it needs hardware support and is a long term job. I don't see that it conflicts with other work much and I think it would make some tasks easier and more efficient at user level too.
I'm sorry you find difficulty with what I write. Others have said that and I do try but succeeding is a different thing unfortunately.
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | anonymou5 | 2021/03/12 06:16 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Linus Torvalds | 2021/03/13 01:18 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Jon Masters | 2021/03/13 07:25 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Jon Masters | 2021/03/13 07:44 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Yuhong Bao | 2021/03/13 08:49 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | tt | 2021/03/20 09:30 AM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Andrey | 2021/03/14 04:15 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Linus Torvalds | 2021/03/14 04:58 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | anonymou5 | 2021/03/14 05:31 PM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | anon2 | 2021/03/14 08:07 PM |
Microkernel? | Anon | 2021/03/14 11:49 PM |
Microkernel? | none | 2021/03/15 12:37 AM |
Microkernel? | Anon | 2021/03/15 01:56 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 01:58 AM |
Microkernel? | Simon Farnsworth | 2021/03/15 03:12 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 04:53 AM |
Microkernel? | Simon Farnsworth | 2021/03/15 06:56 AM |
Microkernel? | iz | 2021/03/15 08:10 AM |
Microkernel? | Anon | 2021/03/15 09:05 AM |
Microkernel? | iz | 2021/03/16 01:25 AM |
Microkernel? | Andrey | 2021/03/16 02:54 AM |
Microkernel? | iz | 2021/03/16 08:36 AM |
Microkernel? | Andrey | 2021/03/16 10:06 AM |
Microkernel? | anonymou5 | 2021/03/16 11:44 AM |
Microkernel? | iz | 2021/03/21 02:58 AM |
Microkernel? | Andrey | 2021/03/21 09:34 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 08:31 AM |
Microkernel? | Simon Farnsworth | 2021/03/16 04:42 AM |
Microkernel? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/03/15 03:21 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 04:56 AM |
Microkernel? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/03/15 10:41 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 08:00 PM |
Microkernel? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/03/16 07:23 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/16 05:13 PM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/16 05:16 PM |
Microkernel? | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2021/03/16 01:40 PM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/16 05:53 PM |
Microkernel? | Linus Torvalds | 2021/03/16 07:25 PM |
Microkernel? | Doug S | 2021/03/17 09:30 AM |
Microkernel? | Linus Torvalds | 2021/03/17 10:30 AM |
Microkernel? | Brendan | 2021/03/17 10:56 PM |
Microkernel? | Michael S | 2021/03/18 03:47 AM |
Microkernel? | Brendan | 2021/03/18 09:07 AM |
Microkernel? | Jose | 2021/03/18 09:35 AM |
Microkernel? | zArchJon | 2021/03/18 05:42 PM |
Transputer | RichardC | 2021/03/17 09:47 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/17 11:15 AM |
Microkernel? | Linus Torvalds | 2021/03/17 11:59 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/17 12:38 PM |
Microkernel? | Adrian | 2021/03/17 01:00 PM |
Microkernel? | Ana R. Riano | 2021/03/18 04:33 AM |
Microkernel? | ⚛ | 2021/04/30 04:52 PM |
Microkernel? | NvaxPlus | 2021/03/17 11:48 AM |
Microkernel? | Michael S | 2021/03/18 03:32 AM |
Microkernel? | Adrian | 2021/03/18 04:12 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/18 06:30 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/18 06:55 AM |
Microkernel? | Adrian | 2021/03/18 08:35 AM |
Microkernel? | --- | 2021/03/18 09:49 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/18 10:59 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/18 04:09 PM |
Microkernel? | --- | 2021/03/18 09:27 AM |
Microkernel? | Kalle A. Sandström | 2021/03/20 06:34 AM |
Microkernel? | --- | 2021/03/20 08:35 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/21 05:29 PM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/15 04:06 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 04:59 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/15 11:51 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 08:31 PM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/16 09:17 AM |
Microkernel? | Jukka Larja | 2021/03/16 11:22 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/16 04:06 PM |
Microkernel? | Jukka Larja | 2021/03/17 03:42 AM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/17 07:00 AM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/16 05:26 PM |
Microkernel? | --- | 2021/03/16 10:07 AM |
Microkernel? | -.- | 2021/03/15 08:15 PM |
Microkernel? | anon2 | 2021/03/15 09:18 PM |
Microkernel? | Foo_ | 2021/03/16 03:37 AM |
Read the thread (NT) | anon2 | 2021/03/16 05:27 PM |
Already did (NT) | Foo_ | 2021/03/17 02:55 AM |
Already did | anon2 | 2021/03/17 03:46 AM |
Already did | Etienne Lorrain | 2021/03/18 02:31 AM |
Microkernel? | -.- | 2021/03/17 05:04 AM |
Microkernel? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/03/17 08:53 AM |
Microkernel? | -.- | 2021/03/17 02:43 PM |
Microkernel? | dmcq | 2021/03/16 08:40 AM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | Konrad Schwarz | 2021/03/17 10:19 AM |
x86 - why unite when you can fragment? | anonon | 2021/03/15 07:37 AM |