Microkernel?

By: --- (---.delete@this.redheron.com), March 18, 2021 8:27 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on March 18, 2021 3:32 am wrote:
> NvaxPlus (anon.delete.delete@this.this.example.com) on March 17, 2021 11:48 am wrote:
> > Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org) on March 16, 2021 7:25 pm wrote:
> > > Why is this even a discussion any more? Microkernels failed.
> > > Give them up. You want a monolithic kernel. End of story.
> > >
> >
> > What possible, useful sense is this true? There are billions
> > and billions of devices running L4. Stop trafficking
> > in tropes that were stale 20 years ago. Exactly nothing about microkernels notionally implies share-nothing
> > message passing between address space isolated processes
> > as the sole "IPC" (taken broadly) mechanism. In fact,
> > most don't even work that way. Amazingly, kernel development has actually progressed since Mach.
> >
>
> Is L4 in Qualcomm modems really used as microkernel, with all services running in separate
> HW-protected memory domains and with each service having at least one thread of its own?

L4 and seL4 as of 2016
https://sci-hub.se/10.1145/2893177

More about L4 use cases here
http://gvsets.ndia-mich.org/documents/VEA/2019/The_seL4_Microkernel_VanVossen_Robert_01July2019.pdf

Apple SEP as of A7 (still running a variant of L4 today, but with ongoing OS and HW improvements; one should at the very least track the various Apple patents post-2012 that describe updates. Note that the "services" provided by SEP run as distinct apps on top of L4, so, yes, they are running "in separate HW-protected memory domains and with each service having at least one thread of its own" subject to at least the degree of isolation imposed on apps on the primary CPU, meaning use of things like XPC for communication.)
https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-16/materials/us-16-Mandt-Demystifying-The-Secure-Enclave-Processor.pdf
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TopicPosted ByDate
x86 - why unite when you can fragment?anonymou52021/03/12 05:16 PM
  x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Linus Torvalds2021/03/13 12:18 PM
    x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Jon Masters2021/03/13 06:25 PM
      x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Jon Masters2021/03/13 06:44 PM
        x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Yuhong Bao2021/03/13 07:49 PM
        x86 - why unite when you can fragment?tt2021/03/20 08:30 AM
    x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Andrey2021/03/14 03:15 PM
      x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Linus Torvalds2021/03/14 03:58 PM
        x86 - why unite when you can fragment?anonymou52021/03/14 04:31 PM
          x86 - why unite when you can fragment?anon22021/03/14 07:07 PM
        Microkernel?Anon2021/03/14 10:49 PM
          Microkernel?none2021/03/14 11:37 PM
            Microkernel?Anon2021/03/15 12:56 AM
          Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 12:58 AM
            Microkernel?Simon Farnsworth2021/03/15 02:12 AM
              Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 03:53 AM
                Microkernel?Simon Farnsworth2021/03/15 05:56 AM
                  Microkernel?iz2021/03/15 07:10 AM
                    Microkernel?Anon2021/03/15 08:05 AM
                      Microkernel?iz2021/03/16 12:25 AM
                        Microkernel?Andrey2021/03/16 01:54 AM
                          Microkernel?iz2021/03/16 07:36 AM
                            Microkernel?Andrey2021/03/16 09:06 AM
                              Microkernel?anonymou52021/03/16 10:44 AM
                              Microkernel?iz2021/03/21 01:58 AM
                                Microkernel?Andrey2021/03/21 08:34 AM
                  Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 07:31 AM
                    Microkernel?Simon Farnsworth2021/03/16 03:42 AM
            Microkernel?Gabriele Svelto2021/03/15 02:21 AM
              Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 03:56 AM
                Microkernel?Gabriele Svelto2021/03/15 09:41 AM
                  Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 07:00 PM
                    Microkernel?Gabriele Svelto2021/03/16 06:23 AM
                      Microkernel?anon22021/03/16 04:13 PM
                        Microkernel?anon22021/03/16 04:16 PM
                    Microkernel?Gian-Carlo Pascutto2021/03/16 12:40 PM
                      Microkernel?anon22021/03/16 04:53 PM
                        Microkernel?Linus Torvalds2021/03/16 06:25 PM
                          Microkernel?Doug S2021/03/17 08:30 AM
                            Microkernel?Linus Torvalds2021/03/17 09:30 AM
                              Microkernel?Brendan2021/03/17 09:56 PM
                                Microkernel?Michael S2021/03/18 02:47 AM
                                  Microkernel?Brendan2021/03/18 08:07 AM
                              Microkernel?Jose2021/03/18 08:35 AM
                            Microkernel?zArchJon2021/03/18 04:42 PM
                          TransputerRichardC2021/03/17 08:47 AM
                          Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/17 10:15 AM
                            Microkernel?Linus Torvalds2021/03/17 10:59 AM
                              Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/17 11:38 AM
                              Microkernel?Adrian2021/03/17 12:00 PM
                              Microkernel?Ana R. Riano2021/03/18 03:33 AM
                              Microkernel?2021/04/30 03:52 PM
                          Microkernel?NvaxPlus2021/03/17 10:48 AM
                            Microkernel?Michael S2021/03/18 02:32 AM
                              Microkernel?Adrian2021/03/18 03:12 AM
                                Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/18 05:30 AM
                                  Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/18 05:55 AM
                                  Microkernel?Adrian2021/03/18 07:35 AM
                                    Microkernel?---2021/03/18 08:49 AM
                                    Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/18 09:59 AM
                                      Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/18 03:09 PM
                              Microkernel?---2021/03/18 08:27 AM
                          Microkernel?Kalle A. Sandström2021/03/20 05:34 AM
                            Microkernel?---2021/03/20 07:35 AM
                            Microkernel?anon22021/03/21 04:29 PM
            Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/15 03:06 AM
              Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 03:59 AM
                Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/15 10:51 AM
                  Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 07:31 PM
                    Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/16 08:17 AM
                      Microkernel?Jukka Larja2021/03/16 10:22 AM
                        Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/16 03:06 PM
                          Microkernel?Jukka Larja2021/03/17 02:42 AM
                            Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/17 06:00 AM
                      Microkernel?anon22021/03/16 04:26 PM
                    Microkernel?---2021/03/16 09:07 AM
            Microkernel?-.-2021/03/15 07:15 PM
              Microkernel?anon22021/03/15 08:18 PM
                Microkernel?Foo_2021/03/16 02:37 AM
                  Read the thread (NT)anon22021/03/16 04:27 PM
                    Already did (NT)Foo_2021/03/17 01:55 AM
                      Already didanon22021/03/17 02:46 AM
                        Already didEtienne Lorrain2021/03/18 01:31 AM
                Microkernel?-.-2021/03/17 04:04 AM
                  Microkernel?Gabriele Svelto2021/03/17 07:53 AM
                    Microkernel?-.-2021/03/17 01:43 PM
              Microkernel?dmcq2021/03/16 07:40 AM
        x86 - why unite when you can fragment?Konrad Schwarz2021/03/17 09:19 AM
    x86 - why unite when you can fragment?anonon2021/03/15 06:37 AM
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