Next architecture will start with ML

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), March 21, 2021 2:38 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
wumpus (wumpus.delete.delete@this.this.lost.in.a.hole) on March 21, 2021 12:24 pm wrote:
>
> Your best (only) bet would be to forget about a new architecture for general purpose programming
> and try to optimize some niche with a market big enough to support it. Best guess is machine learning,

I think that's true, but it's a bit of a cop-out. It's not replacing - or even really modifying - the core CPU architecture, it's just adding logic on the side.

It might be augmenting your load it to the point where 99% of the silicon is used for ML, but it doesn't make that core GP CPU ISA go away. It's still there, doing the management functionality and controlling the beast. No different from how a GPU doesn't replace a CPU, and all those GPU instruction sets haven't really had any effect on core CPU architecture, and how having a fast GPU requires a fast CPU to feed it.

I doubt it will even make the GP GPU shrink. Generally, the heavier lifting you do with a coprocessor, the higher the management requirements end up being. This is not just for games and GPU's - my go-to-example was people complain about one of the Xeon Phi HPC computers to me about how bad the NFS performance was. Because that's what they used to actually feed the monster. My response was to basically say "what do you expect, when your GP CPU side is bad?"

So the general-purpose problems don't go away just because you then have a very heavy specialized load. It doesn't even tend to make the GP CPU less important.

You don't want your ML engine managing your memory layout or your TCP stack, or your filesystem. "But my ML engine won't even have virtual memory or a filesystem - it just does everything in onboard memory", I hear you say. But that doesn't change the basic issue, and you'll need some other thing that transfers all the data the right way and into the right position.

Linus
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TopicPosted ByDate
What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?Moritz2021/03/20 05:21 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?Stanislav Shwartsman2021/03/20 06:22 AM
    I like the analysis of current arch presentedMoritz2021/03/20 10:13 AM
    Did you read this old article?Michael S2021/03/21 02:12 AM
  Deliver programs in IRHugo Décharnes2021/03/20 07:34 AM
    Java bytecode and Wasm exist, why invent something else? (NT)Foo_2021/03/20 08:01 AM
      Java bytecode and Wasm exist, why invent something else?Hugo Décharnes2021/03/20 08:55 AM
        Java bytecode and Wasm exist, why invent something else?Foo_2021/03/20 10:50 AM
          Java bytecode and Wasm exist, why invent something else?Hugo Décharnes2021/03/20 12:40 PM
            Java bytecode and Wasm exist, why invent something else?Foo_2021/03/20 04:54 PM
              It's called source code, no?anonymou52021/03/21 12:43 AM
                It's called source code, no?Foo_2021/03/21 05:07 AM
                Thoughts on software distribution formatsPaul A. Clayton2021/03/22 01:45 PM
    Deliver programs in IRJames2021/03/20 11:24 AM
      Deliver programs in IRHugo Décharnes2021/03/20 12:28 PM
        Deliver programs in IRHugo Décharnes2021/03/20 12:36 PM
    Deliver programs in IRLinus Torvalds2021/03/20 01:20 PM
      Deliver programs in IRHugo Décharnes2021/03/20 01:51 PM
      I'd like to be able to NOT specify order for some things ...Mark Roulo2021/03/20 05:49 PM
        I'd like to be able to NOT specify order for some things ...Jukka Larja2021/03/21 12:26 AM
          NOT (unintentionally) specify orderMoritz2021/03/21 06:00 AM
            NOT (unintentionally) specify orderJukka Larja2021/03/22 07:11 AM
              NOT (unintentionally) specify orderMoritz2021/03/22 12:40 PM
                NOT (unintentionally) specify orderJukka Larja2021/03/23 06:26 AM
          I'd like to be able to NOT specify order for some things ...Mark Roulo2021/03/21 09:47 AM
            I'd like to be able to NOT specify order for some things ...Victor Alander2021/03/21 05:14 PM
      Next architecture will start with MLwumpus2021/03/21 12:24 PM
        Next architecture will start with MLLinus Torvalds2021/03/21 02:38 PM
          Maybe SQL was the better example for general purpose machineswumpus2021/03/22 08:33 AM
            Maybe SQL was the better example for general purpose machinesanon2021/03/22 09:10 AM
        Next architecture will start with MLML will move to PIM2021/03/22 03:51 AM
    Deliver programs in IRanon2021/03/21 03:22 AM
      Deliver programs in IRanon22021/03/21 04:52 AM
        Deliver programs in IRrwessel2021/03/21 05:05 AM
          Deliver programs in IRanon22021/03/21 07:08 PM
            Deliver programs in IRrwessel2021/03/21 10:47 PM
              Deliver programs in IRdmcq2021/03/22 04:33 AM
                Deliver programs in IRrwessel2021/03/22 06:27 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?Veedrac2021/03/20 11:27 AM
    Cray MTAanon2021/03/20 06:04 PM
      Cray MTAChester2021/03/20 07:54 PM
        Cray MTAVeedrac2021/03/21 01:33 AM
          Cray MTAnoone2021/03/21 09:15 AM
            Cray MTAVeedrac2021/03/21 10:54 AM
    monolithic 3Dwumpus2021/03/21 12:50 PM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?Anon2021/03/21 12:06 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?rwessel2021/03/21 05:02 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?juanrga2021/03/21 05:46 AM
  Summery so farMoritz2021/03/21 09:45 AM
    Summery so farrwessel2021/03/21 11:23 AM
      not staticMoritz2021/03/26 10:12 AM
        Dynamic meta instruction encoding for instruction window compressionMoritz2021/03/28 03:28 AM
          redistributing the work between static compiler, dynamic compiler, CPUMoritz2021/04/05 03:21 AM
            redistributing the work between static compiler, dynamic compiler, CPUdmcq2021/04/05 09:27 AM
    Summery so farAnon2021/03/21 08:53 PM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?blaine2021/03/21 10:10 AM
    What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?rwessel2021/03/21 11:26 AM
      What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?rwessel2021/03/21 11:34 AM
        What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?blaine2021/03/21 12:55 PM
          What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?rwessel2021/03/21 01:31 PM
      What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?gallier22021/03/22 12:49 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?dmcq2021/03/21 03:50 PM
  Microthread/low IPCEtienne Lorrain2021/03/22 03:22 AM
    Microthread/low IPCdmcq2021/03/22 04:24 AM
      Microthread/low IPCEtienne Lorrain2021/03/22 06:10 AM
        Microthread/low IPCdmcq2021/03/22 08:24 AM
    Microthread/low IPCdmcq2021/03/22 04:53 AM
      Microthread/low IPCEtienne Lorrain2021/03/22 05:46 AM
      Microthread/low IPCAnon2021/03/22 05:47 AM
    Microthread/low IPCHeikki Kultala2021/03/22 05:47 PM
      Microthread/low IPCEtienne Lorrain2021/03/23 03:36 AM
        Microthread/low IPCNyan2021/03/24 03:00 AM
          Microthread/low IPCEtienne Lorrain2021/03/24 04:23 AM
      Microthread/low IPCAnon2021/03/23 08:16 AM
        Microthread/low IPCgai2021/03/23 09:37 AM
          Microthread/low IPCAnon2021/03/23 10:17 AM
            Microthread/low IPCdmcq2021/03/23 12:42 PM
  Have you looked at "The Mill CPU" project? (nt)Anon C2021/03/22 06:21 AM
    Have you looked at "The Mill CPU" project? (nt)Moritz2021/03/22 12:13 PM
      Have you looked at "The Mill CPU" project? (nt)Andrew Clough2021/03/22 04:27 PM
        The Mill = vaporwareRichardC2021/03/23 12:47 PM
          The Mill = vaporwareMichael S2021/03/23 01:58 PM
          The Mill = vaporwareCarson2021/03/23 06:17 PM
          The Mill = doomed but interestingAndrew Clough2021/03/24 08:06 AM
            Solution in search of a problemwumpus2021/03/24 08:52 AM
              Solution in search of a problemdmcq2021/03/24 10:22 AM
          never-ware != vaporware (at least in connotation)Paul A. Clayton2021/03/24 10:37 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?anonini2021/03/22 08:28 AM
    microcode that can combine instructionMoritz2021/03/22 12:26 PM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?anony2021/03/22 10:16 AM
    Totally clueless.Heikki Kultala2021/03/22 05:53 PM
  Hierarchical instruction setHeikki Kultala2021/03/22 06:52 PM
    Hierarchical instruction setVeedrac2021/03/23 03:49 AM
      Hierarchical instruction setHeikki Kultala2021/03/23 06:46 AM
        Hierarchical instruction setEtienne Lorrain2021/03/23 07:16 AM
          microthreads on OS call/exceptionHeikki Kultala2021/03/23 07:34 AM
        Hierarchical instruction setVeedrac2021/03/23 09:31 AM
          Hierarchical instruction setEtienne Lorrain2021/03/24 01:13 AM
            Hierarchical instruction setVeedrac2021/03/24 07:11 AM
    Hierarchical instruction setAnon2021/03/23 08:39 AM
  What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?Paul A. Clayton2021/03/26 08:21 AM
    What are your ideas for a radically different CPU ISA + physical Arch?wumpus2021/03/26 09:45 AM
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