Intel gutted 7 nm

By: Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org), March 26, 2021 8:58 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
eh (eh.delete@this.eh.eh) on March 26, 2021 2:36 am wrote:
> anon (anon.delete@this.anon.anon) on March 25, 2021 12:43 pm wrote:
> > Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on March 24, 2021 8:20 am wrote:
> > > me (me.delete@this.me.com) on March 24, 2021 3:48 am wrote:
> > > > Intel said they gutted 7 nm. I doubt it will be competitive
> > > > enough with whatever TSMC has at the time to interest Apple.
> > >
> > >
> > > According to Charlie, the changes in 7nm were to use EUV more and multipattern
> > > DUV less. If true, it is still the same 7nm just made in a way that has a greater
> > > chance of success (but higher cost due to using more EUV scanners)
> > >
> > > But it is absolutely true though that Intel's 7nm won't interest Apple, gutted or not. If
> > > they can roll out in mid 2023 which is the most optimistic date per Charlie, at that same
> > > time TSMC will be entering mass production of their second generation N3 process which Apple
> > > will have taped out A17/M4 for the previous year. TSMC's "7nm" is roughly equivalent to Intel's
> > > "10nm", so there's no way TSMC's second gen "3nm" isn't better than Intel's "7nm".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I suggest you guys spending a bit of time listening to photolithography conferences,
> > to acquire information directly from the people that work on these things.
> >
> > It is a fairly reliable source of information.
> >
> > Little help for you:
> > https://spie.org/
> > https://conference-indico.kek.jp/event/125/contributions/2304/attachments/1711/1951/Presentation_Jan_van_Schoot_et_al.ASML.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally, i don't see TSMC and Samsung upgrading straight to the new 0.55
> > High-NA Scanners in 2023, whereas Intel that didn't spend a dime on the 7mn
> > EUV tools until now, is finally free to buy as many new Scanners it needs.
> > ASML tho, should provide upgrades to the current generation of scanners owned
> > by TSMC, Samsung, etc to be 0.33 NA compatible, if i understood correctly.
> > Masks and films are also getting better at withstanding the EUV wavelength,
> > allowing better yields by the lowering defect rates.
> >
> > In my opinion, things will change rapidly in the next 2 years, we will
> > finally be able to achieve decent sub 5nm and great 7/5nm nodes.
> > And i have the feeling that Intel, at the end, bamboozled basically everyone.
>
> If you want to call 5 years of failure "bamboozling" everyone, sure.
>



While there is no doubt about the many years of Intel failures and that most companies would have entered bankruptcy after such failures, Intel has so much money that it still has some chances to leapfrog the others and arrive once more in the top position.


There is hardly anything to criticize about Gelsinger's presentation, he has announced pretty much all the measures that have been expected from him as having chances to make Intel competitive again.


Of course it is extremely uncertain whether Intel will succeed to execute its plans.

In my opinion, the last few years cannot be explained by just some bad CEO, but also by the existence of an entire layer of bad managers inside Intel.


So I believe that Gelsinger will succeed only if he correctly identifies those bad managers and replaces them. I assume that he is also aware of this fact and maybe he has already done some steps in this direction.


For now, I am waiting with interest the announcement of Ice Lake Server on the 6th of April.

There is no doubt that Ice Lake Server is inferior to AMD Milan for most purposes, but the interesting part of the announcement will be the prices.

If the price of Ice Lake Server would be low enough, it could still be preferable to AMD Milan, but it is likely that their problems with the 10-nm manufacturing will prevent Intel to reduce the prices, even if they would want that.


So it is likely that also in this generation of server CPUs most Intel sales would continue to go to the customers for whom the server performances are less important than the inconvenience of changing or mixing vendors.





























< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJon Masters2021/03/23 03:31 PM
  Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementRayla2021/03/23 03:45 PM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementdmcq2021/03/23 04:30 PM
    commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkDaniel B2021/03/23 04:46 PM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkKester L2021/03/23 04:56 PM
        commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkanonymou52021/03/24 12:57 AM
          commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/24 03:25 AM
            commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkJoe2021/03/24 05:56 AM
              commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkMichael S2021/03/24 06:47 AM
                commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/24 07:04 AM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkJames2021/03/24 03:39 AM
        Intel gutted 7 nmme2021/03/24 03:48 AM
          Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/24 08:20 AM
            Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/03/25 12:43 PM
              Intel gutted 7 nmeh2021/03/26 02:36 AM
                Intel gutted 7 nmAdrian2021/03/26 08:58 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmwumpus2021/03/26 09:53 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmme2021/03/26 10:11 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmMaxwell2021/03/26 02:21 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmYoav2021/03/29 01:06 AM
              Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/26 09:43 AM
                Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/03/26 03:39 PM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmNoSpammer2021/03/26 08:46 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmAdrian2021/03/26 11:57 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nmAndrey2021/03/28 06:18 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/03/27 05:52 AM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmwumpus2021/03/27 12:16 PM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/27 05:08 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/12/13 03:05 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nm---2021/12/13 04:31 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/12/13 09:34 PM
                        Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/12/13 10:41 PM
                          Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/12/14 11:38 AM
                            Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/12/14 11:58 AM
                            Feed the Troll less (unless you are enjoying it!)Mark Roulo2021/12/14 01:52 PM
                Intel gutted 7 nmblue2021/03/27 10:16 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmme2021/03/27 12:22 PM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/27 05:14 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmDavid Kanter2021/04/07 09:06 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/04/08 12:38 PM
        commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkDaniel B2021/03/24 08:08 AM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkDoug S2021/03/24 08:12 AM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkMaxwell2021/03/25 11:16 AM
        commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/25 11:38 AM
          commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkAdrian2021/03/25 01:01 PM
            commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/27 12:57 PM
    A lot has changed since thenDoug S2021/03/24 08:01 AM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementGabriele Svelto2021/03/25 03:17 AM
  Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementBeastian2021/03/23 05:39 PM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJames2021/03/24 03:14 AM
      Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementme2021/03/24 03:37 AM
        Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJames2021/03/24 03:53 AM
      Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementanonymou52021/03/24 08:39 AM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJukka Larja2021/03/24 06:05 AM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcement - Hyper-scalers as customersBjörn Ragnar Björnsson2021/03/24 06:19 PM
  5nm the end of DRAM?Brett2021/03/25 05:17 PM
    What is next after DDR5?Ganon2021/03/25 05:56 PM
      What is next after DDR5?wumpus2021/03/26 09:10 AM
        What is next after DDR5?Brett2021/03/26 04:39 PM
          What is next after DDR5?wumpus2021/03/28 10:44 AM
      What is next after DDR5?Brett2021/03/27 04:27 PM
        What is next after DDR5?Doug S2021/03/27 05:18 PM
      What is next after DDR5?Anononymous Coward2021/03/30 07:03 AM
        What is next after DDR5?Andrey2021/03/30 09:09 AM
          What is next after DDR5?David Hess2021/04/04 08:52 PM
      What is next after DDR5?David Hess2021/04/04 08:45 PM
        What is next after DDR5?Doug S2021/04/05 06:57 AM
          What is next after DDR5?David Hess2021/04/05 10:45 AM
          Same costAnon2021/04/05 11:31 AM
            Same costDavid Hess2021/04/05 08:26 PM
            Same costMaxwell2021/04/06 07:17 PM
              Same costDavid Hess2021/04/07 02:35 PM
          What is next after DDR5?wumpus2021/04/07 09:06 AM
      L4 is not a memory technologyHeikki Kultala2021/04/07 12:38 PM
        DRAM cachewumpus2021/04/08 08:24 AM
        Intel iGPU memory was eDRAM, not SRAMMark Roulo2021/04/08 11:31 AM
          I am not talking about the eDRAM. I am talking about the cache that is L3 for CPUHeikki Kultala2021/04/08 11:09 PM
            I am not talking about the eDRAM. I am talking about the cache that is L3 for CPURobert Williams2021/04/09 11:24 AM
              This STILL has NOTHING to do with the eDRAM. I am talking about the SRAM LLCHeikki Kultala2021/04/09 12:57 PM
                This STILL has NOTHING to do with the eDRAM. I am talking about the SRAM LLC---2021/04/09 01:40 PM
    5nm the end of DRAM?Rayla2021/03/26 09:28 AM
      5nm the end of DRAM?riy2021/04/08 06:26 AM
        5nm the end of DRAM?Michael S2021/04/08 11:51 AM
    5nm the end of DRAM?Doug S2021/03/26 09:52 AM
      5nm the end of DRAM?wumpus2021/04/07 09:10 AM
        5nm the end of DRAM?Robert Williams2021/04/07 11:05 AM
    Totaly misunderstanding of DDR SDRAM memory interfaces and DRAMHeikki Kultala2021/04/07 12:36 PM
      Totaly misunderstanding of DDR SDRAM memory interfaces and DRAManonymou52021/04/07 01:13 PM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell tangerine? 🍊