Intel gutted 7 nm

By: Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar), March 26, 2021 9:43 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
anon (anon.delete@this.anon.anon) on March 25, 2021 12:43 pm wrote:
> Personally, i don't see TSMC and Samsung upgrading straight to the new 0.55
> High-NA Scanners in 2023, whereas Intel that didn't spend a dime on the 7mn
> EUV tools until now, is finally free to buy as many new Scanners it needs.
> ASML tho, should provide upgrades to the current generation of scanners owned
> by TSMC, Samsung, etc to be 0.33 NA compatible, if i understood correctly.
> Masks and films are also getting better at withstanding the EUV wavelength,
> allowing better yields by the lowering defect rates.


What, you think TSMC will use the same equipment for 3nm that they are using for 5nm, and the same equipment for 2nm that they are using for 3nm?

Intel might want to 'recycle' some equipment since they don't keep old nodes around, but TSMC keeps old nodes around forever so they need new equipment for every node. They have bought new equipment for their N3 process that enters risk production this year, because the equipment they used for N5 is still in use. They will buy (most likely ordered a while back and will take delivery soon) the equipment they will use for N2 in 2024, because the equipment they use for N3 and N5 will still be in use.

So yes, TSMC will upgrade straight to the latest and greatest EUV equipment, as dictated by the needs of their process roadmap - which unlike Intel they actually follow without constant screwups and introduce a brand new node every two years. Intel is not "free to buy as many new scanners as it needs" because it is competing with TSMC and Samsung for those orders. Presumably they will have enough for their needs though, since they will have placed orders for them years ago based on needs for roadmapped processes far smaller than they were actually capable of delivering.

You have a lot of faith in a company that has screwed up constantly for the better part of a decade (remember that 14nm didn't roll out on time either) and is now a full node behind TSMC and will be two nodes behind when they start delivering N3 wafers to Apple in the summer of next year. Maybe by then they will have good enough yields on 10nm they won't have the large majority of their volume still on 14nm.
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJon Masters2021/03/23 03:31 PM
  Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementRayla2021/03/23 03:45 PM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementdmcq2021/03/23 04:30 PM
    commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkDaniel B2021/03/23 04:46 PM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkKester L2021/03/23 04:56 PM
        commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkanonymou52021/03/24 12:57 AM
          commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/24 03:25 AM
            commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkJoe2021/03/24 05:56 AM
              commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkMichael S2021/03/24 06:47 AM
                commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/24 07:04 AM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkJames2021/03/24 03:39 AM
        Intel gutted 7 nmme2021/03/24 03:48 AM
          Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/24 08:20 AM
            Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/03/25 12:43 PM
              Intel gutted 7 nmeh2021/03/26 02:36 AM
                Intel gutted 7 nmAdrian2021/03/26 08:58 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmwumpus2021/03/26 09:53 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmme2021/03/26 10:11 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmMaxwell2021/03/26 02:21 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmYoav2021/03/29 01:06 AM
              Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/26 09:43 AM
                Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/03/26 03:39 PM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmNoSpammer2021/03/26 08:46 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmAdrian2021/03/26 11:57 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nmAndrey2021/03/28 06:18 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/03/27 05:52 AM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmwumpus2021/03/27 12:16 PM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/27 05:08 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/12/13 03:05 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nm---2021/12/13 04:31 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/12/13 09:34 PM
                        Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/12/13 10:41 PM
                          Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/12/14 11:38 AM
                            Intel gutted 7 nmanon2021/12/14 11:58 AM
                            Feed the Troll less (unless you are enjoying it!)Mark Roulo2021/12/14 01:52 PM
                Intel gutted 7 nmblue2021/03/27 10:16 AM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmme2021/03/27 12:22 PM
                  Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/03/27 05:14 PM
                    Intel gutted 7 nmDavid Kanter2021/04/07 09:06 PM
                      Intel gutted 7 nmDoug S2021/04/08 12:38 PM
        commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkDaniel B2021/03/24 08:08 AM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkDoug S2021/03/24 08:12 AM
      commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkMaxwell2021/03/25 11:16 AM
        commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/25 11:38 AM
          commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkAdrian2021/03/25 01:01 PM
            commitment to foundry, shutting down fabless talkme2021/03/27 12:57 PM
    A lot has changed since thenDoug S2021/03/24 08:01 AM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementGabriele Svelto2021/03/25 03:17 AM
  Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementBeastian2021/03/23 05:39 PM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJames2021/03/24 03:14 AM
      Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementme2021/03/24 03:37 AM
        Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJames2021/03/24 03:53 AM
      Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementanonymou52021/03/24 08:39 AM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcementJukka Larja2021/03/24 06:05 AM
    Intel's IDM 2.0 announcement - Hyper-scalers as customersBjörn Ragnar Björnsson2021/03/24 06:19 PM
  5nm the end of DRAM?Brett2021/03/25 05:17 PM
    What is next after DDR5?Ganon2021/03/25 05:56 PM
      What is next after DDR5?wumpus2021/03/26 09:10 AM
        What is next after DDR5?Brett2021/03/26 04:39 PM
          What is next after DDR5?wumpus2021/03/28 10:44 AM
      What is next after DDR5?Brett2021/03/27 04:27 PM
        What is next after DDR5?Doug S2021/03/27 05:18 PM
      What is next after DDR5?Anononymous Coward2021/03/30 07:03 AM
        What is next after DDR5?Andrey2021/03/30 09:09 AM
          What is next after DDR5?David Hess2021/04/04 08:52 PM
      What is next after DDR5?David Hess2021/04/04 08:45 PM
        What is next after DDR5?Doug S2021/04/05 06:57 AM
          What is next after DDR5?David Hess2021/04/05 10:45 AM
          Same costAnon2021/04/05 11:31 AM
            Same costDavid Hess2021/04/05 08:26 PM
            Same costMaxwell2021/04/06 07:17 PM
              Same costDavid Hess2021/04/07 02:35 PM
          What is next after DDR5?wumpus2021/04/07 09:06 AM
      L4 is not a memory technologyHeikki Kultala2021/04/07 12:38 PM
        DRAM cachewumpus2021/04/08 08:24 AM
        Intel iGPU memory was eDRAM, not SRAMMark Roulo2021/04/08 11:31 AM
          I am not talking about the eDRAM. I am talking about the cache that is L3 for CPUHeikki Kultala2021/04/08 11:09 PM
            I am not talking about the eDRAM. I am talking about the cache that is L3 for CPURobert Williams2021/04/09 11:24 AM
              This STILL has NOTHING to do with the eDRAM. I am talking about the SRAM LLCHeikki Kultala2021/04/09 12:57 PM
                This STILL has NOTHING to do with the eDRAM. I am talking about the SRAM LLC---2021/04/09 01:40 PM
    5nm the end of DRAM?Rayla2021/03/26 09:28 AM
      5nm the end of DRAM?riy2021/04/08 06:26 AM
        5nm the end of DRAM?Michael S2021/04/08 11:51 AM
    5nm the end of DRAM?Doug S2021/03/26 09:52 AM
      5nm the end of DRAM?wumpus2021/04/07 09:10 AM
        5nm the end of DRAM?Robert Williams2021/04/07 11:05 AM
    Totaly misunderstanding of DDR SDRAM memory interfaces and DRAMHeikki Kultala2021/04/07 12:36 PM
      Totaly misunderstanding of DDR SDRAM memory interfaces and DRAManonymou52021/04/07 01:13 PM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell tangerine? 🍊