By: NoSpammer (no.delete@this.spam.com), March 26, 2021 8:46 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
anon (anon.delete@this.anon.anon) on March 26, 2021 3:39 pm wrote:
> The 14++++++++ and others drama don't really matter, from a practical point of view.
> So Intel screwed up more because it refused to invest into delivering lower
> nodes when others did, rather than because of not being able to.
Intel screwed up because they were relying on something in the process (we don't know exactly what) to work but if failed to work, and apparently the same thing (or a combination) derailed the next process as well.
> TSMC, Samsung did an equal awesome feat, by leveraging the current EUV scanners.
> Being an EUV early adopter was not an easy task, still engineers managed to mass produce 7nm and 5nm nodes.
> However, current EUV scanners cannot leverage decently sub 5nm
> nodes, without scarifying even more yields and quantities.
No, really? How about:
- computational lithography
- better resists
- better methods to fix rough edges
- vertical transistors
- after all node nm is just a number
> Now, which company would get more of these next generation scanners from ASML?
> I suspect that Intel put some effort into developing the new High-NA scanners,
> masks, films to better fit its EUV mass production standards.
> Meanwhile, TSMC and Samsung still need to capitalize on their current generation of machines.
Yes, sure, so after overtaking Intel in R&D they went into bean counting mode so that Intel can overtake them. Haahaha.
> So i would lend toward Intel having the priority at ASML, over TSMC or Samsung.
That certainly will not happen unless ASML get an offer they cannot refuse.
> Time will tell if Intel can keep it up, or if everything was really a screw-up.
> As far we want to criticize, until now, on paper, Intel is in good shape despite everything.
I have my suspicion (if they are anything like paranoid now) that they have one or two microarchitectures in development for TSMC production, too. At least that's what I would do if I were Pat.
> The 14++++++++ and others drama don't really matter, from a practical point of view.
> So Intel screwed up more because it refused to invest into delivering lower
> nodes when others did, rather than because of not being able to.
Intel screwed up because they were relying on something in the process (we don't know exactly what) to work but if failed to work, and apparently the same thing (or a combination) derailed the next process as well.
> TSMC, Samsung did an equal awesome feat, by leveraging the current EUV scanners.
> Being an EUV early adopter was not an easy task, still engineers managed to mass produce 7nm and 5nm nodes.
> However, current EUV scanners cannot leverage decently sub 5nm
> nodes, without scarifying even more yields and quantities.
No, really? How about:
- computational lithography
- better resists
- better methods to fix rough edges
- vertical transistors
- after all node nm is just a number
> Now, which company would get more of these next generation scanners from ASML?
> I suspect that Intel put some effort into developing the new High-NA scanners,
> masks, films to better fit its EUV mass production standards.
> Meanwhile, TSMC and Samsung still need to capitalize on their current generation of machines.
Yes, sure, so after overtaking Intel in R&D they went into bean counting mode so that Intel can overtake them. Haahaha.
> So i would lend toward Intel having the priority at ASML, over TSMC or Samsung.
That certainly will not happen unless ASML get an offer they cannot refuse.
> Time will tell if Intel can keep it up, or if everything was really a screw-up.
> As far we want to criticize, until now, on paper, Intel is in good shape despite everything.
I have my suspicion (if they are anything like paranoid now) that they have one or two microarchitectures in development for TSMC production, too. At least that's what I would do if I were Pat.