Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11

By: dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk), July 2, 2021 5:34 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 2, 2021 2:45 am wrote:
> Beastian (noemail.delete@this.aol.com) on July 1, 2021 9:38 pm wrote:
> > Mark Roulo (nothanks.delete@this.xxx.com) on July 1, 2021 8:28 pm wrote:
> > > Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on July 1, 2021 8:20 pm wrote:
> > > > Beastian (no.email.delete@this.aol.com) on July 1, 2021 2:48 pm wrote:
> > > > > https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/28/announcing-arm64ec-building-native-and-interoperable-apps-for-windows-11-on-arm/
> > > > >
> > > > >
Internally, we’ve rebuilt the binaries of the Windows 11 on ARM operating system itself with ARM64EC
> > > > > so that any system code loaded by x64 apps runs with native speed. In addition, the Office team is using
> > > > > ARM64EC in the coming 64-bit Office for ARM so that existing x64 plugins will work seamlessly.

> > > > >
> > > > > Microsoft seems entirely reliant on ARM for its non-PC compute in devices like hololens,
> > > > > and is plowing extensive resources into engineering compatibility solutions like this
> > > > > for its more traditional platforms. Looks like Windows on ARM is here to stay.
> > > >
> > > > That's entirely backwards. This makes it so running ARM64 code on an x64 PC runs faster. They
> > > > need it to work the other way around, so that running x64 code on an ARM64 PC runs faster.

> > >
> > > From the link:
> > >
> > >
ARM64EC is a new application binary interface (ABI) for Windows 11 on ARM that runs
> > > with native speed and is interoperable with x64. An app, process, or even a module can
> > > freely mix and match ARM64EC and x64 as needed. The ARM64EC code in the app will run
> > > natively while any x64 code will run using Windows 11 on ARM’s built-in emulation.
> > > ...
> > > Traditionally, rebuilding an app for ARM has meant recompiling the entire app. The result
> > > is a great native experience for the customer that unlocks the full power of the ARM device.
> > > However, from a developer perspective, porting an app can be all-or-nothing, since all the
> > > binaries within a process need to be rebuilt before a customer can see the benefit.
> > >
> > > With ARM64EC, you can choose to start small and build incrementally. You can identify a part
> > > of your codebase that would benefit most from native performance and rebuild it as ARM64EC.
> > > The rest of the app will remain fully functional as emulated x64, but the recompiled ARM64EC
> > > parts will now have native speed. Over time, you can recompile more of the app as ARM64EC
> > > to further improve performance and conserve battery life for your app’s customers.

> >
> > I should have said x86-64 compatibility shim for ARM rather than ARM compatibility shim I guess,
> > but their dropping of somewhat recently released x86 processors from Windows 11 support and engineering
> > of compiler and emulator interfaces like these bodes well for ARM in the consumer space. (I know
> > not too many around here are interested in Windows, but they are still a huge platform that isn't
> > going away anytime soon whose future direction is germane to the hardware space...)
>
> Apple’s $35 ARM CPU’s in Macs have better performance than Intel’s $350 CPU’s.
> Everyone thinks Windows on ARM is doomed, but you all will be surprised at how fast
> the Intel monopoly dies with this technology. Apple has made this exact transition
> twice successfully, and each transition happened in less than two years.
>
> Intel’s only hope is the $10 billion investment in on die RAM/cache keeping
> the high end of the market due to an unassailable performance lead.
>
> Even with a successful Hail Mary pass Intel could lose half it’s volumes
> and margins, as the low and mid markets go away or have no profits.

I think I'll wait for ARM to knock x86 out of the Chromebook market first before writing any eulogies for Intel.

But an interesting and useful development I think. It wouldn't take much to run it either way - running x86 on ARM or running ARM on x86. It is a pain putting in interface routines when running software under a user code emulator rather than a complete system
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TopicPosted ByDate
Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/01 02:48 PM
  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Groo2021/07/01 03:44 PM
  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/01 08:20 PM
    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Mark Roulo2021/07/01 08:28 PM
      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/01 09:38 PM
        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Brett2021/07/02 02:45 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11James2021/07/02 05:25 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11dmcq2021/07/02 05:34 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/02 09:02 AM
            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Kester L2021/07/02 09:33 AM
              Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/02 11:36 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/03 05:37 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/03 10:38 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/03 02:07 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Kester L2021/07/06 07:48 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/06 10:46 PM
          Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceMark Roulo2021/07/02 10:07 AM
            Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales price---2021/07/02 11:22 AM
              Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceme2021/07/02 11:32 AM
              Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceDummond D. Slow2021/07/03 02:11 PM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11anon2021/07/02 11:26 AM
            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/02 12:47 PM
              Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Linus Torvalds2021/07/02 02:10 PM
                Optimized local call conventionsanon22021/07/02 07:49 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsAdrian2021/07/02 10:03 PM
                    Optimized local call conventionsanon22021/07/03 12:10 AM
                      Optimized local call conventionsAdrian2021/07/03 10:04 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsrwessel2021/07/02 11:44 PM
                    Optimized local call conventionsdmcq2021/07/03 01:47 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsCarson2021/07/03 06:13 PM
                    Optimized local call conventionsanon22021/07/03 09:18 PM
                      Optimized local call conventionsCarson2021/07/04 01:23 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11---2021/07/03 08:59 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11joema2021/07/03 10:37 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/03 12:05 PM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Linus Torvalds2021/07/03 12:26 PM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/03 03:45 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Michael S2021/07/03 04:54 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11-.-2021/07/04 06:57 AM
                            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11---2021/07/04 09:25 AM
                            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/05 09:34 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Foo_2021/07/04 02:25 AM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/04 05:18 AM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/04 05:47 AM
                            Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportJames2021/07/05 02:17 AM
                              Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportgai2021/07/05 08:35 AM
                                Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportJukka Larja2021/07/05 11:11 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Foo_2021/07/04 06:31 AM
                          Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Dummond D. Slow2021/07/04 07:40 AM
                            Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Doug S2021/07/05 09:56 AM
                              Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Brett2021/07/05 01:47 PM
                                "DOOMED"Anon2021/07/06 01:01 AM
                                  "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 03:15 AM
                                    "DOOMED"dmcq2021/07/06 04:08 AM
                                      "DOOMED"me2021/07/06 04:57 AM
                                      "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 05:09 AM
                                        "DOOMED"Anon2021/07/06 05:50 AM
                                          "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 06:29 AM
                                  "DOOMED"Doug S2021/07/06 08:41 AM
                                    "DOOMED"Jukka Larja2021/07/06 10:55 PM
                                      "DOOMED"Doug S2021/07/07 12:21 AM
                                Forgot about AMD?Chester2021/07/06 08:51 AM
                                dumb terminalsanonymous22021/07/06 10:51 AM
                              Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Dummond D. Slow2021/07/06 06:40 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 03:49 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 04:18 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?Etienne Lorrain2021/07/05 01:21 AM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/06 03:20 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?---2021/07/04 09:42 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 02:44 PM
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