Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11

By: anon (anon.delete@this.anon.anon), July 2, 2021 11:26 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 2, 2021 2:45 am wrote:
> Beastian (noemail.delete@this.aol.com) on July 1, 2021 9:38 pm wrote:
> > Mark Roulo (nothanks.delete@this.xxx.com) on July 1, 2021 8:28 pm wrote:
> > > Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on July 1, 2021 8:20 pm wrote:
> > > > Beastian (no.email.delete@this.aol.com) on July 1, 2021 2:48 pm wrote:
> > > > > https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/28/announcing-arm64ec-building-native-and-interoperable-apps-for-windows-11-on-arm/
> > > > >
> > > > >
Internally, we’ve rebuilt the binaries of the Windows 11 on ARM operating system itself with ARM64EC
> > > > > so that any system code loaded by x64 apps runs with native speed. In addition, the Office team is using
> > > > > ARM64EC in the coming 64-bit Office for ARM so that existing x64 plugins will work seamlessly.

> > > > >
> > > > > Microsoft seems entirely reliant on ARM for its non-PC compute in devices like hololens,
> > > > > and is plowing extensive resources into engineering compatibility solutions like this
> > > > > for its more traditional platforms. Looks like Windows on ARM is here to stay.
> > > >
> > > > That's entirely backwards. This makes it so running ARM64 code on an x64 PC runs faster. They
> > > > need it to work the other way around, so that running x64 code on an ARM64 PC runs faster.

> > >
> > > From the link:
> > >
> > >
ARM64EC is a new application binary interface (ABI) for Windows 11 on ARM that runs
> > > with native speed and is interoperable with x64. An app, process, or even a module can
> > > freely mix and match ARM64EC and x64 as needed. The ARM64EC code in the app will run
> > > natively while any x64 code will run using Windows 11 on ARM’s built-in emulation.
> > > ...
> > > Traditionally, rebuilding an app for ARM has meant recompiling the entire app. The result
> > > is a great native experience for the customer that unlocks the full power of the ARM device.
> > > However, from a developer perspective, porting an app can be all-or-nothing, since all the
> > > binaries within a process need to be rebuilt before a customer can see the benefit.
> > >
> > > With ARM64EC, you can choose to start small and build incrementally. You can identify a part
> > > of your codebase that would benefit most from native performance and rebuild it as ARM64EC.
> > > The rest of the app will remain fully functional as emulated x64, but the recompiled ARM64EC
> > > parts will now have native speed. Over time, you can recompile more of the app as ARM64EC
> > > to further improve performance and conserve battery life for your app’s customers.

> >
> > I should have said x86-64 compatibility shim for ARM rather than ARM compatibility shim I guess,
> > but their dropping of somewhat recently released x86 processors from Windows 11 support and engineering
> > of compiler and emulator interfaces like these bodes well for ARM in the consumer space. (I know
> > not too many around here are interested in Windows, but they are still a huge platform that isn't
> > going away anytime soon whose future direction is germane to the hardware space...)
>
> Apple’s $35 ARM CPU’s in Macs have better performance than Intel’s $350 CPU’s.
> Everyone thinks Windows on ARM is doomed, but you all will be surprised at how fast
> the Intel monopoly dies with this technology. Apple has made this exact transition
> twice successfully, and each transition happened in less than two years.
>
> Intel’s only hope is the $10 billion investment in on die RAM/cache keeping
> the high end of the market due to an unassailable performance lead.
>
> Even with a successful Hail Mary pass Intel could lose half it’s volumes
> and margins, as the low and mid markets go away or have no profits.


I would agree with you, dethroning Intel from its monopoly, is really welcomed!
I would have like that, what Apple is doing, would not have been closed behind patents golden doors.

Little reminder, M1 ARM cpu is exclusive to Apple internal use.
The same goes with for the OS, alongside with all the work done to enhance ARM performances.

So yeah, for us nothing changed, once again.
Intel will continue to be a monopoly, next gen factories are on the way, once again.
Finally, one does not simply change winning schemes, Apple is coping the Intel path, leveraging ARM.
I suppose that's why Nvidia want to get its hands-on ARM, for the same Apple reason, i suppose.


Micro$haft ARM enhancements, are maybe a way to keep alive the Win11 bootcamp dual boot on Macs??


Mark Roulo (nothanks.delete@this.xxx.com) on July 2, 2021 10:07 am wrote:
> Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 2, 2021 2:45 am wrote:
> > Apple’s $35 ARM CPU’s in Macs have better performance than Intel’s $350 CPU’s.
>
> Please do not compare manufacturing unit cost with sales price.
>
> Apple would not sell these chips for $35 each if they were selling them to 3rd parties.
>
> Intel's manufacturing cost for the $350 CPUs is no where near $350.

Thank you!
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/01 02:48 PM
  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Groo2021/07/01 03:44 PM
  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/01 08:20 PM
    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Mark Roulo2021/07/01 08:28 PM
      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/01 09:38 PM
        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Brett2021/07/02 02:45 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11James2021/07/02 05:25 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11dmcq2021/07/02 05:34 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/02 09:02 AM
            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Kester L2021/07/02 09:33 AM
              Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/02 11:36 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/03 05:37 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/03 10:38 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/03 02:07 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Kester L2021/07/06 07:48 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/06 10:46 PM
          Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceMark Roulo2021/07/02 10:07 AM
            Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales price---2021/07/02 11:22 AM
              Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceme2021/07/02 11:32 AM
              Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceDummond D. Slow2021/07/03 02:11 PM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11anon2021/07/02 11:26 AM
            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/02 12:47 PM
              Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Linus Torvalds2021/07/02 02:10 PM
                Optimized local call conventionsanon22021/07/02 07:49 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsAdrian2021/07/02 10:03 PM
                    Optimized local call conventionsanon22021/07/03 12:10 AM
                      Optimized local call conventionsAdrian2021/07/03 10:04 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsrwessel2021/07/02 11:44 PM
                    Optimized local call conventionsdmcq2021/07/03 01:47 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsCarson2021/07/03 06:13 PM
                    Optimized local call conventionsanon22021/07/03 09:18 PM
                      Optimized local call conventionsCarson2021/07/04 01:23 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11---2021/07/03 08:59 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11joema2021/07/03 10:37 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/03 12:05 PM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Linus Torvalds2021/07/03 12:26 PM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/03 03:45 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Michael S2021/07/03 04:54 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11-.-2021/07/04 06:57 AM
                            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11---2021/07/04 09:25 AM
                            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/05 09:34 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Foo_2021/07/04 02:25 AM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/04 05:18 AM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/04 05:47 AM
                            Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportJames2021/07/05 02:17 AM
                              Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportgai2021/07/05 08:35 AM
                                Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportJukka Larja2021/07/05 11:11 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Foo_2021/07/04 06:31 AM
                          Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Dummond D. Slow2021/07/04 07:40 AM
                            Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Doug S2021/07/05 09:56 AM
                              Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Brett2021/07/05 01:47 PM
                                "DOOMED"Anon2021/07/06 01:01 AM
                                  "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 03:15 AM
                                    "DOOMED"dmcq2021/07/06 04:08 AM
                                      "DOOMED"me2021/07/06 04:57 AM
                                      "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 05:09 AM
                                        "DOOMED"Anon2021/07/06 05:50 AM
                                          "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 06:29 AM
                                  "DOOMED"Doug S2021/07/06 08:41 AM
                                    "DOOMED"Jukka Larja2021/07/06 10:55 PM
                                      "DOOMED"Doug S2021/07/07 12:21 AM
                                Forgot about AMD?Chester2021/07/06 08:51 AM
                                dumb terminalsanonymous22021/07/06 10:51 AM
                              Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Dummond D. Slow2021/07/06 06:40 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 03:49 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 04:18 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?Etienne Lorrain2021/07/05 01:21 AM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/06 03:20 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?---2021/07/04 09:42 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 02:44 PM
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