Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...

By: Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar), July 5, 2021 9:56 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us) on July 4, 2021 7:40 am wrote:
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on July 4, 2021 5:18 am wrote:
>
>
> > > The reason for the difference has to do with the end goal for each. Microsoft is adding ARM support
> > > but has no plans to ever drop x86 support.
>
>
> >
> > That lack of financial incentive is the problem with an
> > architecture that's an alternative to the mainstream
> > rather than a migration path.
> >
> >
>
> IMHO, Microsoft wants people to use Windows on ARM and this tool
> is a valid move to support that. Nothing more, nothing less.
> They do not want to MOVE people to ARM from x86, I assume.
> So no surprise this tool is useless/bad for those goals.
>
>
> At this point, IMHO the notion of dropping x86 support from Windows is so not on table it's not even funny.
> You drop architectures when the CPUs stop being used and there is no new hardware and no user interest.
>
> I think people who operate with that drop x86 idea as if it was anything that is a logical
> outcome of current conditions probably have their thinking clouded by some pseudo-religiousness
> where they think history should lead to some goal they like ("purge the impure CPUs") and
> shape their expectations by that instead of looking at the ground reality.
>
> Microsoft does not plan a "migration path" from x86 to ARM, they just want to plainly
> support ARM. It's IMHO quite silly when people see that and say the latter is "too
> little". Kind of symbolises lots of wrong thinking people suffer from.
>
> Let's be realistic. Demanding MS to implement a plan to phase out x86 in some sort of activist
> move based on "I don't like Intel/AMD/x86/old stuff" mentality is utterly silly.
> In the end lots of those geeks wanting that probably also have Windows on their "I don't like this
> so kill it" lists too, I guess, which might make their ideas a bit suspect? Debates about hardware
> and technology in any case would be better if people would not build them from such backgrounds.


Where was I suggesting that Microsoft would ever consider or should ever consider dropping x86? I was merely drawing a contrast to Apple's migration making the task of getting Mac developers to port much easier, not suggesting that Microsoft should do the same. My point is that since Windows/ARM PCs are sold as an alternative to Windows/x86 PCs, and ARM PCs can run x86 applications, there is very little incentive for developers to bother porting to ARM.

Its a chicken and egg, without a market developers won't port, without native applications even if ARM PCs have a price/performance advantage the emulation overhead kills it.

The only people for whom ARM PCs currently might make sense are those who use few or no third party applications, and basically use their PC only for web browsing and checking email. That's a huge chunk of the consumer Windows market, which could potentially lead to ARM PC sales in the tens of millions if those PCs are cheaper than x86 PCs, but those sales won't make developers want to port. Why bother porting to access a market full of people who use their PC as a web & email machine only?
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TopicPosted ByDate
Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/01 02:48 PM
  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Groo2021/07/01 03:44 PM
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      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/01 09:38 PM
        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Brett2021/07/02 02:45 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11James2021/07/02 05:25 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11dmcq2021/07/02 05:34 AM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/02 09:02 AM
            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Kester L2021/07/02 09:33 AM
              Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/02 11:36 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/03 05:37 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/03 10:38 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Gabriele Svelto2021/07/03 02:07 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Kester L2021/07/06 07:48 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/06 10:46 PM
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            Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales price---2021/07/02 11:22 AM
              Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceme2021/07/02 11:32 AM
              Don't compare manufacturing unit cost with sales priceDummond D. Slow2021/07/03 02:11 PM
          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11anon2021/07/02 11:26 AM
            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Beastian2021/07/02 12:47 PM
              Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Linus Torvalds2021/07/02 02:10 PM
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                      Optimized local call conventionsAdrian2021/07/03 10:04 PM
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                    Optimized local call conventionsdmcq2021/07/03 01:47 PM
                  Optimized local call conventionsCarson2021/07/03 06:13 PM
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                      Optimized local call conventionsCarson2021/07/04 01:23 PM
                Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11---2021/07/03 08:59 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11joema2021/07/03 10:37 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/03 12:05 PM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Linus Torvalds2021/07/03 12:26 PM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/03 03:45 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Michael S2021/07/03 04:54 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11-.-2021/07/04 06:57 AM
                            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11---2021/07/04 09:25 AM
                            Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/05 09:34 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Foo_2021/07/04 02:25 AM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Doug S2021/07/04 05:18 AM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Jukka Larja2021/07/04 05:47 AM
                            Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportJames2021/07/05 02:17 AM
                              Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportgai2021/07/05 08:35 AM
                                Ongoing Windows 16 bit supportJukka Larja2021/07/05 11:11 PM
                          Interesting ARM compatibility shim for Windows 11Foo_2021/07/04 06:31 AM
                          Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Dummond D. Slow2021/07/04 07:40 AM
                            Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Doug S2021/07/05 09:56 AM
                              Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Brett2021/07/05 01:47 PM
                                "DOOMED"Anon2021/07/06 01:01 AM
                                  "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 03:15 AM
                                    "DOOMED"dmcq2021/07/06 04:08 AM
                                      "DOOMED"me2021/07/06 04:57 AM
                                      "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 05:09 AM
                                        "DOOMED"Anon2021/07/06 05:50 AM
                                          "DOOMED"Michael S2021/07/06 06:29 AM
                                  "DOOMED"Doug S2021/07/06 08:41 AM
                                    "DOOMED"Jukka Larja2021/07/06 10:55 PM
                                      "DOOMED"Doug S2021/07/07 12:21 AM
                                Forgot about AMD?Chester2021/07/06 08:51 AM
                                dumb terminalsanonymous22021/07/06 10:51 AM
                              Microsoft should drop x86 thinking...Dummond D. Slow2021/07/06 06:40 AM
                  Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 03:49 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 04:18 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?Etienne Lorrain2021/07/05 01:21 AM
                        Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/06 03:20 AM
                    Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?---2021/07/04 09:42 AM
                      Interesting ARM compatibility - Procedure values?dmcq2021/07/04 02:44 PM
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