Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?

By: Rayla (rayla.delete@this.example.com), July 10, 2021 5:33 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
cqwrteur (euloanty.delete@this.live.com) on July 10, 2021 4:41 pm wrote:
> Gabriele Svelto (gabriele.svelto.delete@this.gmail.com) on July 10, 2021 3:56 pm wrote:
> > cqwrteur (euloanty.delete@this.live.com) on July 10, 2021 1:32 pm wrote:
> > > You do not just copy paste from rust std to linux kernel. You add code for dual error
> > > reporting. Those code are completely unverified due to "panic not allowed policy".
> >
> > You keep claiming that but bring zero data to back your claim. So here's some data regarding
> > the code in question: the changes between rust/alloc in the Rust-for-Linux tree compared to
> > rust's library/alloc/src sources are a few hundred lines, most of which are attributes to disable
> > things like OOM handling. I'm pretty sure that a few hundred lines can be verified in a reasonable
> > amount of time, especially given that most of them aren't even unsafe code.
> >
> > > Also. Entire project is unsafe hell. No just the std crates part but other parts too.
> > > https://github.com/Rust-for-Linux/linux/blob/rust/rust/kernel/allocator.rs
> >
> > I'm presenting here a piece of what you call "unsafe hell" from that code you pointed out:
> >
> > unsafe {
> > bindings::kfree(ptr as *const c_types::c_void);
> > }
> >

> > That's calling kfree() on a pointer that undergoes a cast to void *. Is that what you call
> > "unsafe hell"? I'm sorry but you'll have to do a more thorough analysis than grepping for "unsafe"
> > if you want to convince anybody that this is a significant problem because right now you're just
> > reinforcing my point that the unsafe code being introduced is as harmless as it can be.
> >
> > > You are arguing C and C++ are same languages? No. C clearly has much more CVEs than C++ in general.
> > > You said C and C++ "combined" that does not make any sense. They are not the same language.
> >
> > Go back and read what I wrote again. I said that the Rust standard library is vastly larger
> > than both the C standard library and the C++ standard library combined, is much younger
> > than both and yet suffers from a surprisingly small number of reported issues.
> >
> > > https://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/15519/Cryptopp.html
> > >
> > > What about cryptopp?? No memory safety CVEs at all compared to OpenSSL.
> > >
> > > If using Rust does not bring any benefit over modern C++, there is no point
> > > due to all the troubles Rust would introduce (like no panic policy whatever).
> >
> > No advantages? Let's bring another data point: http://www.vegardno.net/2018/06/compiler-fuzzing.html
> >
> > From the article:
> >
> >
From the end of February until some time in April I ran the fuzzer on and off and
> > reported just over 100 distinct gcc bugs in total [...] First, these bugs are mostly
> > crashes: internal compiler errors ("ICEs"), assertion failures, and segfaults.
> >
> >
And then
> >
> >
However, I still think there is value in fuzzing compilers. Personally I find it very interesting that the
> > same technique on rustc, the Rust compiler, only found 8
> > bugs in a couple of weeks of fuzzing, and not a single
> > one of them was an actual segfault. I think it does say something
> > about the nature of the code base, code quality,
> > and the relative dangers of different programming languages, in case it was not clear already.
> >
> >

> >
> >
> You are brainwashed. Still does not change the fact, yes it is unsafe hell. No data? Where are those CVEs come
> from? Why Rust stdlib in one year has more CVEs than GCC + clang combined in the entire lifespan? Also how
> do you prove Rust code in kernel would achieve the same result when you use unsafe for all functions?
>
> People even have to write paper to prove zealots like you are wrong.
> https://songlh.github.io/paper/rust-study.pdf
>
>
> Fuzzing LOL. I remembered Alex Gaynor said modern C++ does not save us, fuzzing is useless.
>
> Why do you need fuzzing if you think fuzzing only works
> for C and C++? Because C and C++ violates human rights?
>
> Fuzzing GCC is a bad example to claim Rust has advantages over modern C++
> since GCC still contains a very significant code with C style code.
>
>
> GCC compared to LLVM. None of them has memory safety cves. NONE.
> https://www.cvedetails.com/product/960/GNU-GCC.html?vendor_id=72
> https://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/13260/Llvm.html
>
>
> For people like you, using C or C++ violates human rights. Of course you are going to continue lying.

Your style is weirdly familiar. Did you by any chance used to be really, really pro-SPARC?
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TopicPosted ByDate
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/09 09:56 PM
  Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Brendan2021/07/10 12:59 AM
    Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 01:37 PM
  Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?anon2021/07/10 04:14 AM
    Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 01:40 PM
      Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Gabriele Svelto2021/07/10 03:59 PM
        Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 04:42 PM
      Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?anon2021/07/11 06:11 AM
        Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/12 12:40 PM
  Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Foo_2021/07/10 06:56 AM
    Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 09:59 AM
      Most RWT posters don’t decide what goes into the Linux kernelMark Roulo2021/07/10 12:55 PM
      Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Foo_2021/07/22 11:10 AM
    Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 10:22 AM
      Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 10:24 AM
        Déja VuDismissive2021/07/10 10:41 AM
          Déja Vucqwrteur2021/07/10 10:47 AM
            Déja VuDismissive2021/07/10 10:51 AM
            Déja VuMichael S2021/07/10 01:11 PM
  Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Gabriele Svelto2021/07/10 12:51 PM
    Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 01:32 PM
      Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Michael S2021/07/10 02:04 PM
        Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 02:25 PM
      Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Gabriele Svelto2021/07/10 03:56 PM
        Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 04:41 PM
          Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Rayla2021/07/10 05:33 PM
            Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 06:27 PM
              Interesting response... (NT)Rayla2021/07/10 09:02 PM
                perhaps just another lousy AI bot? (NT)anonymou52021/07/10 09:33 PM
                  perhaps just another lousy AI bot?dmcq2021/07/10 11:26 PM
                    perhaps just another lousy AI bot?cqwrteur2021/07/10 11:56 PM
                      perhaps just another lousy AI bot?dmcq2021/07/11 03:29 AM
                      perhaps just another lousy AI bot?anon2021/07/11 06:16 AM
                        perhaps just another lousy AI bot?cqwrteur2021/07/12 03:56 PM
                    perhaps just another lousy AI bot?Rayla2021/07/11 06:13 AM
                      perhaps just another lousy AI bot?cqwrteur2021/07/11 11:59 AM
                        When did I call you a bot, Kebabbert? (NT)Rayla2021/07/11 08:51 PM
              Alternatives?Brendan2021/07/11 01:54 AM
                Alternatives?Michael S2021/07/11 06:01 AM
                  Alternatives?Brendan2021/07/11 06:51 AM
                    Alternatives?cqwrteur2021/07/11 11:58 AM
                      Alternatives?Gabriele Svelto2021/07/12 01:31 AM
                        Alternatives?Michael S2021/07/12 03:58 AM
                          Alternatives?anon22021/07/12 09:08 AM
                            Alternatives?Michael S2021/07/12 09:22 AM
                              cqwrteur: Keep it politeDavid Kanter2021/07/13 08:59 AM
                          Alternatives?dmcq2021/07/12 09:37 AM
                            Alternatives?cqwrteur2021/07/12 04:04 PM
                              Alternatives?dmcq2021/07/12 04:26 PM
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                                  Alternatives?dmcq2021/07/13 06:54 AM
                          Alternatives?Jörn Engel2021/07/13 04:53 PM
                            Alternatives?FrankHB2021/07/17 07:56 AM
                          Differences between Rust and C/GoGabriele Svelto2021/07/14 05:57 AM
                            Differences between Rust and C/GoFrankHB2021/07/17 09:47 AM
                        Alternatives?FrankHB2021/07/12 10:08 AM
                          Alternatives?Gabriele Svelto2021/07/14 02:28 PM
                            Inappropriate messages removed: cqwrteurDavid Kanter2021/07/15 10:59 AM
                            Alternatives?FrankHB2021/07/16 06:43 AM
                              Alternatives?Anon2021/07/16 12:01 PM
                                Alternatives?Gabriele Svelto2021/07/16 01:44 PM
                                Type abstraction and kernel programmingFrankHB2021/07/17 01:44 AM
                                  Type abstraction and kernel programmingdmcq2021/07/18 04:00 AM
                                    Type abstraction and kernel programmingdmcq2021/07/18 04:36 AM
                                  Type abstraction and kernel programmingEtienne Lorrain2021/07/19 01:03 AM
                                    Type abstraction and kernel programmingdmcq2021/07/19 02:01 AM
                                      Type abstraction and kernel programmingAnon2021/07/19 02:05 AM
                                        Type abstraction and kernel programmingdmcq2021/07/19 03:23 AM
                                      Type abstraction and kernel programmingBrendan2021/07/19 07:05 AM
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                                  Alternatives?Anon2021/07/20 06:24 AM
                                    Alternatives?Michael S2021/07/20 10:14 AM
                                      Alternatives?Anon2021/07/20 10:53 AM
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                          Alternatives?Brendan2021/07/12 08:52 PM
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                                                          Dealing with memory errorsdmcq2021/07/14 04:27 PM
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                                                      Alternatives?Anon2021/07/14 04:16 AM
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                                                    Stop feeding that trollnone2021/07/14 04:13 AM
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              Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?2021/07/12 06:27 AM
                Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Anon2021/07/12 09:46 AM
                Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?Etienne Lorrain2021/07/13 02:00 AM
    Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future?cqwrteur2021/07/10 01:38 PM
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