By: Gabriele Svelto (gabriele.svelto.delete@this.gmail.com), July 14, 2021 5:57 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 12, 2021 3:58 am wrote:
> I don't know.
> I read through Rust tutorial and decided that I don't like it, certainly would not use
> it for code that I do for my own pleasure and would never use it for production code at
> my own initiative. Still could use it if management insists, but that's unlikely.
>
> [O.T.]
> For comparison, I read through Go manual and found it palatable.
I can relate to that, Rust is fundamentally different then C/C++ while Go is not. And over time Rust has grown more and more distant from other system languages so when you switch over you need to embrace new concepts. Five years ago I would have said that Rust's learning curve was steep - and it was - now it's not anymore, unless you're coming from years of work on traditional system languages. That's to say a kid these days can pick up Rust pretty easily as his/her first system language - just like I did with C many moons ago - but expert programmers have a harder time due to the fundamentally different approach. Learning Rust is easy, learning idiomatic Rust is still hard and requires some time to un-learn old behaviors (e.g. it is very unlikely for me to write a loop in Rust code, but learning the language won't make it immediately apparent until you familiarize yourself with the standard library).
I'd recommend reading some of Amos Wegner's excellent blog posts for a through description of how Rust and C/Go differ WRT abstractions, types and API design. Some of his posts are very long as he spends a significant amount of time going over the reasoning behind every design decision, but I think they're worth your time. Here's my recommendations:
I'd also recommend the equally long and extremely thorough Rust is for Professionals from Gregory Szorc, another former mozillian.
Though even that post misses some aspects that make Rust a joy to use. One being portability. After having learned how to deal with native paths in Rust going back to other languages is a chore.
> I don't know.
> I read through Rust tutorial and decided that I don't like it, certainly would not use
> it for code that I do for my own pleasure and would never use it for production code at
> my own initiative. Still could use it if management insists, but that's unlikely.
>
> [O.T.]
> For comparison, I read through Go manual and found it palatable.
I can relate to that, Rust is fundamentally different then C/C++ while Go is not. And over time Rust has grown more and more distant from other system languages so when you switch over you need to embrace new concepts. Five years ago I would have said that Rust's learning curve was steep - and it was - now it's not anymore, unless you're coming from years of work on traditional system languages. That's to say a kid these days can pick up Rust pretty easily as his/her first system language - just like I did with C many moons ago - but expert programmers have a harder time due to the fundamentally different approach. Learning Rust is easy, learning idiomatic Rust is still hard and requires some time to un-learn old behaviors (e.g. it is very unlikely for me to write a loop in Rust code, but learning the language won't make it immediately apparent until you familiarize yourself with the standard library).
I'd recommend reading some of Amos Wegner's excellent blog posts for a through description of how Rust and C/Go differ WRT abstractions, types and API design. Some of his posts are very long as he spends a significant amount of time going over the reasoning behind every design decision, but I think they're worth your time. Here's my recommendations:
I'd also recommend the equally long and extremely thorough Rust is for Professionals from Gregory Szorc, another former mozillian.
Though even that post misses some aspects that make Rust a joy to use. One being portability. After having learned how to deal with native paths in Rust going back to other languages is a chore.
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/09 09:56 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Brendan | 2021/07/10 12:59 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 01:37 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | anon | 2021/07/10 04:14 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 01:40 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/10 03:59 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 04:42 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | anon | 2021/07/11 06:11 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/12 12:40 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Foo_ | 2021/07/10 06:56 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 09:59 AM |
Most RWT posters don’t decide what goes into the Linux kernel | Mark Roulo | 2021/07/10 12:55 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Foo_ | 2021/07/22 11:10 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 10:22 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 10:24 AM |
Déja Vu | Dismissive | 2021/07/10 10:41 AM |
Déja Vu | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 10:47 AM |
Déja Vu | Dismissive | 2021/07/10 10:51 AM |
Déja Vu | Michael S | 2021/07/10 01:11 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/10 12:51 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 01:32 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Michael S | 2021/07/10 02:04 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 02:25 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/10 03:56 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 04:41 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Rayla | 2021/07/10 05:33 PM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 06:27 PM |
Interesting response... (NT) | Rayla | 2021/07/10 09:02 PM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? (NT) | anonymou5 | 2021/07/10 09:33 PM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | dmcq | 2021/07/10 11:26 PM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 11:56 PM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | dmcq | 2021/07/11 03:29 AM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | anon | 2021/07/11 06:16 AM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/12 03:56 PM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | Rayla | 2021/07/11 06:13 AM |
perhaps just another lousy AI bot? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/11 11:59 AM |
When did I call you a bot, Kebabbert? (NT) | Rayla | 2021/07/11 08:51 PM |
Alternatives? | Brendan | 2021/07/11 01:54 AM |
Alternatives? | Michael S | 2021/07/11 06:01 AM |
Alternatives? | Brendan | 2021/07/11 06:51 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/11 11:58 AM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/12 01:31 AM |
Alternatives? | Michael S | 2021/07/12 03:58 AM |
Alternatives? | anon2 | 2021/07/12 09:08 AM |
Alternatives? | Michael S | 2021/07/12 09:22 AM |
cqwrteur: Keep it polite | David Kanter | 2021/07/13 08:59 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/12 09:37 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/12 04:04 PM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/12 04:26 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 01:47 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/13 06:54 AM |
Alternatives? | Jörn Engel | 2021/07/13 04:53 PM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/17 07:56 AM |
Differences between Rust and C/Go | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/14 05:57 AM |
Differences between Rust and C/Go | FrankHB | 2021/07/17 09:47 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/12 10:08 AM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/14 02:28 PM |
Inappropriate messages removed: cqwrteur | David Kanter | 2021/07/15 10:59 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/16 06:43 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/16 12:01 PM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/16 01:44 PM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | FrankHB | 2021/07/17 01:44 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | dmcq | 2021/07/18 04:00 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | dmcq | 2021/07/18 04:36 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | Etienne Lorrain | 2021/07/19 01:03 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | dmcq | 2021/07/19 02:01 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | Anon | 2021/07/19 02:05 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | dmcq | 2021/07/19 03:23 AM |
Type abstraction and kernel programming | Brendan | 2021/07/19 07:05 AM |
Alternatives? | gallier2 | 2021/07/20 04:57 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/20 06:24 AM |
Alternatives? | Michael S | 2021/07/20 10:14 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/20 10:53 AM |
Alternatives? | gallier2 | 2021/07/21 11:44 PM |
Alternatives? | Adrian | 2021/07/20 12:00 PM |
Alternatives? | Brett | 2021/07/20 11:13 PM |
Alternatives? | Michael S | 2021/07/21 02:12 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/22 12:58 PM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/21 08:58 AM |
Alternatives? | Brendan | 2021/07/12 02:34 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/12 10:57 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/12 12:55 PM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/12 09:44 PM |
Alternatives? | Brendan | 2021/07/12 08:52 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/12 11:05 PM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/12 11:42 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 12:42 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 12:44 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/13 08:32 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 09:36 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 09:39 PM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/13 10:02 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 10:18 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 09:49 PM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/13 10:07 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 10:16 PM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/13 11:31 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 12:30 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 01:55 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:22 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 03:05 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 03:11 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 04:16 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 07:06 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 08:20 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 08:51 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 12:33 PM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/14 01:19 PM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/16 07:07 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 12:33 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 01:57 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:21 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/14 03:06 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 03:50 AM |
Alternatives? | ⚛ | 2021/07/15 08:33 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/16 07:13 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 12:39 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 02:08 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:20 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/14 02:46 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:52 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/14 10:13 AM |
Alternatives? | dmcq | 2021/07/14 10:23 AM |
Dealing with memory errors | Brendan | 2021/07/14 12:50 PM |
Dealing with memory errors | dmcq | 2021/07/14 04:27 PM |
Dealing with memory errors | Brendan | 2021/07/14 04:55 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 03:12 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 04:16 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 06:55 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/16 07:27 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:38 AM |
Alternatives? | anon | 2021/07/14 03:50 AM |
Stop feeding that troll | none | 2021/07/14 04:13 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 07:39 AM |
Alternatives? | Brendan | 2021/07/14 12:15 PM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 04:19 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 07:12 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 08:17 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 08:47 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/14 01:00 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 01:44 PM |
Alternatives? | ⚛ | 2021/07/15 10:36 AM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/14 01:26 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 01:46 PM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/14 02:36 PM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:55 PM |
Alternatives? | Smoochie | 2021/07/15 12:07 AM |
Alternatives? | ⚛ | 2021/07/15 08:37 AM |
Alternatives? | Brendan | 2021/07/15 11:21 AM |
Alternatives? | Anon | 2021/07/15 01:15 PM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/16 07:27 AM |
Alternatives? | None | 2021/07/14 02:50 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:54 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 02:55 AM |
Alternatives? | Rayla | 2021/07/14 05:47 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/14 06:54 AM |
Alternatives? | Gabriele Svelto | 2021/07/14 01:43 PM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/13 12:47 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/13 12:05 AM |
Alternatives? | Michael S | 2021/07/13 01:01 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/13 01:25 AM |
Alternatives? | Doug S | 2021/07/13 12:29 AM |
Alternatives? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/13 12:48 AM |
Alternatives? | FrankHB | 2021/07/13 01:07 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | ⚛ | 2021/07/12 06:27 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Anon | 2021/07/12 09:46 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | Etienne Lorrain | 2021/07/13 02:00 AM |
Is unsafe hell truly good for linux kernel in the future? | cqwrteur | 2021/07/10 01:38 PM |