Computations on Big Integers

By: Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org), July 26, 2022 7:59 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on July 26, 2022 5:55 am wrote:
> Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on July 26, 2022 2:53 am wrote:
> > Bill G (bill.delete@this.g.com) on July 26, 2022 1:40 am wrote:
> > > Thank you for the link to the GMPbench results. Intel Alder Lake (i5 12600K)
> > > is faster than Apple M1 on GMPbench by the percentages shown below:
> > >
> > > RSA encryption 78%
> > > Multiply 58%
> > > Divide 52%
> > > GMP-bench 45%
> > > Extended Greatest Common Divisor 23%
> > > Greatest Common Divisor 22%
> > > Pi computation 21%
> > >
> > > GMPbench is a single-threaded integer benchmark. If Alder Lake is running at its maximum turbo
> > > frequency during this benchmark, Alder Lake would have a 53% higher clock frequency than Apple
> > > M1 during this benchmark. In that case, Alder Lake and Apple M1 are doing about the same amount
> > > of work per clock for multiply and divide. Alder Lake is doing about 31% less work per clock
> > > than Apple M1 for the two greatest common divisor benchmarks and the pi computation.
> > >
> > > The web page you linked to says “Most operations in GMP up to quite large operand sizes
> > > would scale very well over multi-core systems, but poorly with SMT.” That seems to favor
> > > Xeon and EPYC processors, at least until the Mac Pro with Apple Silicon comes out.
> >
> >
> > The performance for big number computations is determined in large part
> > by the performance of the multiplication of big integer numbers.
> >
>
> I am afraid, the limiting factor is not # of multipliers, but # of dev hours spend on target-specific
> tuning. And the 2nd limiting factor is still not # of multipliers, but quality of compilers.
>
> Take, for example, division of relatively short Bigints, say 128 to 512 bits. Now take two relatively
> similar cores, Zen2 and Zen3. Zen2 has o.k. integer division. Zen3 has a bloody fast one.
> I wouldn't be surprised if that fact alone will lead to completely different optimal strategies for
> division of numbers in above-mentioned ranges.
>
> Now, what if we take something more seriously different, like Apple M1?
> Being ARM it has no "long division" at all and it's "short" 64-bit division is in the same class
> or little better as "long division" on Zen3. But it has something else - fully pipelined FP (double-precision
> division unit. Could it be used to speed up big-integer division for above-mentioned lengths? My
> answer is "I don't know before I try.". And "try" here does not mean something quick, but rather
> a week of four of hard work of writing and comparing several alternatives.
>
>
>


For relatively short numbers, e.g. under 1024-bit, you are right that for many of the operations that can benefit from more complex instructions, e.g. division or square root, the execution time is not yet completely dominated by the multiplication time and an optimization for the instructions supported by a given hardware can make a large difference.

Unlike for multiplication, for division or square root it is less likely that vector instructions could be helpful in big number computations, as in the algorithms that use such instructions their operands are typically dependent on earlier results. So I do not expect any future ISA improvements comparable to the introduction of IFMA, but only slightly faster implementations of the existing instructions.


In general the suitability for various CPUs of the functions that can be found in the widely available libraries is very variable, because I suppose that most people do like I also do, i.e. they spend a serious optimization effort only on the functions that happen to slow them down at a certain time and only for the CPUs that they happen to use at that time.

So for any new case you may be lucky and you can find an already well optimized function for a given CPU, published by some charitable soul, otherwise you may have to do your own optimization work.


I completely agree with you about the quantity of work needed.

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Yitian 710 anonymous22021/10/20 08:57 PM
  Yitian 710 Adrian2021/10/21 12:20 AM
  Yitian 710 Wilco2021/10/21 03:47 AM
    Yitian 710 Rayla2021/10/21 05:52 AM
      Yitian 710 Wilco2021/10/21 11:59 AM
        Yitian 710 anon22021/10/21 05:16 PM
        Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/16 12:21 PM
          Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/16 08:22 PM
            Yitian 710 Rayla2022/07/17 09:10 AM
              Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/17 12:04 PM
                Yitian 710 Rayla2022/07/17 12:08 PM
                  Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/17 01:16 PM
                    Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/17 01:32 PM
                      Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/17 02:22 PM
                        Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/17 02:47 PM
                          Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/17 03:50 PM
                            Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/17 08:46 PM
                              Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/18 03:01 AM
                                Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/19 11:21 AM
                                  Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/19 06:15 PM
                                    Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 01:25 AM
                                      Yitian 710 none2022/07/21 01:49 AM
                                        Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 03:03 AM
                                          Yitian 710 none2022/07/21 04:34 AM
                                      Yitian 710 James2022/07/21 02:29 AM
                                        Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 03:05 AM
                                      Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/21 04:31 AM
                                        Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 05:17 AM
                                          Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/21 05:33 AM
                                            Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 05:50 AM
                                              Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/21 06:07 AM
                                                Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 06:20 AM
                                                  Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/21 10:02 AM
                                                    Yitian 710 Anon2022/07/21 10:22 AM
                    Yitian 710 Adrian2022/07/17 11:09 PM
                      Yitian 710 Wilco2022/07/18 01:15 AM
                        Yitian 710 Adrian2022/07/18 02:35 AM
          Yitian 710 Adrian2022/07/16 11:19 PM
            Computations on Big IntegersBill G2022/07/25 10:06 PM
              Computations on Big Integersnone2022/07/25 11:35 PM
                x86 MUL 64x64 Eric Fink2022/07/26 01:06 AM
                  x86 MUL 64x64 Adrian2022/07/26 02:27 AM
                  x86 MUL 64x64 none2022/07/26 02:38 AM
                    x86 MUL 64x64 Jörn Engel2022/07/26 10:17 AM
                      x86 MUL 64x64 Linus Torvalds2022/07/27 10:13 AM
                        x86 MUL 64x64 2022/07/28 09:40 AM
                        x86 MUL 64x64 Jörn Engel2022/07/28 10:18 AM
                          More than 3 registers per instruction-.-2022/07/28 07:01 PM
                            More than 3 registers per instructionAnon2022/07/28 10:39 PM
                            More than 3 registers per instructionJörn Engel2022/07/28 10:42 PM
                              More than 3 registers per instruction-.-2022/07/29 04:31 AM
                Computations on Big IntegersBill G2022/07/26 01:40 AM
                  Computations on Big Integersnone2022/07/26 02:17 AM
                    Computations on Big IntegersBill G2022/07/26 03:52 AM
                    Computations on Big Integers---2022/07/26 09:57 AM
                  Computations on Big IntegersAdrian2022/07/26 02:53 AM
                    Computations on Big IntegersBill G2022/07/26 03:39 AM
                      Computations on Big IntegersAdrian2022/07/26 04:21 AM
                    Computations on Big Integers in Apple AMX UnitsBill G2022/07/26 04:28 AM
                      Computations on Big Integers in Apple AMX UnitsAdrian2022/07/26 05:13 AM
                        TypoAdrian2022/07/26 05:20 AM
                          IEEE binary64 is 53 bits rather than 52. (NT)Michael S2022/07/26 05:34 AM
                            IEEE binary64 is 53 bits rather than 52.Adrian2022/07/26 07:32 AM
                              IEEE binary64 is 53 bits rather than 52.Michael S2022/07/26 10:02 AM
                                IEEE binary64 is 53 bits rather than 52.Adrian2022/07/27 06:58 AM
                                  IEEE binary64 is 53 bits rather than 52.none2022/07/27 07:14 AM
                                    IEEE binary64 is 53 bits rather than 52.Adrian2022/07/27 07:55 AM
                                      Thanks a lot for the link to the article! (NT)none2022/07/27 08:09 AM
                          TypozArchJon2022/07/26 09:51 AM
                            TypoMichael S2022/07/26 10:25 AM
                              TypozArchJon2022/07/26 11:52 AM
                                TypoMichael S2022/07/26 01:02 PM
                    Computations on Big IntegersMichael S2022/07/26 05:55 AM
                      Computations on Big IntegersAdrian2022/07/26 07:59 AM
                        IFMA and DivisionBill G2022/07/26 04:25 PM
                          IFMA and Divisionrwessel2022/07/26 08:16 PM
                          IFMA and DivisionAdrian2022/07/27 07:25 AM
                      Computations on Big Integersnone2022/07/27 01:22 AM
                    Big integer multiplication with vector IFMABill G2022/07/29 01:06 AM
                      Big integer multiplication with vector IFMAAdrian2022/07/29 01:35 AM
                        Big integer multiplication with vector IFMA-.-2022/07/29 04:32 AM
                          Big integer multiplication with vector IFMAAdrian2022/07/29 09:47 PM
                            Big integer multiplication with vector IFMAAnon2022/07/30 08:12 AM
                              Big integer multiplication with vector IFMAAdrian2022/07/30 09:27 AM
                                AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresPaul A. Clayton2022/07/31 03:20 PM
                                  AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresAnon2022/07/31 03:33 PM
                                    AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresanonymou52022/07/31 05:03 PM
                                  AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresBrett2022/07/31 07:26 PM
                                  AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresAdrian2022/08/01 01:45 AM
                                    Why can't E-cores have narrow/slow AVX-512? (NT)anonymous22022/08/01 03:37 PM
                                      Why can't E-cores have narrow/slow AVX-512?Ivan2022/08/02 12:09 AM
                                        Why can't E-cores have narrow/slow AVX-512?anonymou52022/08/02 10:13 AM
                                        Why can't E-cores have narrow/slow AVX-512?Dummond D. Slow2022/08/02 03:02 PM
                                    AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresPaul A. Clayton2022/08/02 01:19 PM
                                      AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresAnon2022/08/02 09:09 PM
                                      AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresAdrian2022/08/03 12:50 AM
                                        AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresAnon2022/08/03 09:15 AM
                                          AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance cores-.-2022/08/03 08:17 PM
                                            AVX-512 unfriendly to heter-performance coresAnon2022/08/03 09:02 PM
                        IFMA: empty promises from Intel as usualKent R2022/07/29 07:15 PM
                          No hype lasts foreverAnon2022/07/30 08:06 AM
                        Big integer multiplication with vector IFMAme2022/07/30 09:15 AM
                Computations on Big Integers---2022/07/26 09:48 AM
                  Computations on Big Integersnone2022/07/27 01:10 AM
                    Computations on Big Integers---2022/07/28 11:43 AM
                      Computations on Big Integers---2022/07/28 06:44 PM
              Computations on Big Integersdmcq2022/07/26 02:27 PM
                Computations on Big IntegersAdrian2022/07/27 08:15 AM
                  Computations on Big IntegersBrett2022/07/27 11:07 AM
      Yitian 710 Wes Felter2021/10/21 12:51 PM
        Yitian 710 Adrian2021/10/21 01:25 PM
    Yitian 710 Anon2021/10/21 06:08 AM
      Strange definition of the word single. (NT)anon22021/10/21 05:00 PM
        AMD Epyc uses chiplets. This is why "strange"?Mark Roulo2021/10/21 05:08 PM
          AMD Epyc uses chiplets. This is why "strange"?anon22021/10/21 05:34 PM
            Yeah. Blame spec.org, too, though!Mark Roulo2021/10/21 05:58 PM
              Yeah. Blame spec.org, too, though!anon22021/10/21 08:07 PM
                Yeah. Blame spec.org, too, though!Björn Ragnar Björnsson2022/07/17 06:23 AM
              Yeah. Blame spec.org, too, though!Rayla2022/07/17 09:13 AM
                Yeah. Blame spec.org, too, though!Anon2022/07/17 12:01 PM
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