Zen 4 is really bad

By: Dummond D. Slow (mental.delete@this.protozoa.us), May 28, 2022 9:14 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on May 26, 2022 10:50 am wrote:
> Kara (karaardalan.delete@this.gmail.com) on May 26, 2022 1:52 am wrote:
> > So, is AMD paying everyone to pretend Zen 4 is so awsome? Because Zen 4 numbers look embarrassing.
> > 12% increase in clock speed, 100% increase in L2 cache, and 15% increase in
> > ST perf.? Nah that can't be right, that'd imply Zen 4 is worse, mArch-wise.
> >
> > Or did they pull an Intel/Arm and sacrifice some of the Ex ports for ML pipelines?
> > Or did they pull a cortex A710 and just literally cut off some Ex ports?
>
>
> It is too early to say for sure, since AMD claims ">15%" ST improvement.
> If that's not sandbagged then I agree it is a really bad result.
>
> I can't really see what they would gain from calling for example a 25% improvement in ST >15%
> though. Osbourning is not a concern for CPU sales since they will continue to sell Zen 3 alongside
> Zen 4 for a long time (and sales to individuals are a small fraction of overall sales)

I think AMD hasn't given "exact" performance results this early (5 months in advance) in the past, so they likely are cautious - gotta have cover in case a performance-dropping erratum gets found.

It's hard to guess by how much that >15% is underestimated though, I have no idea. They did say they were conservative in more than one way.

Apparently there will be more performance reveals over summer including actual IPC claims, so I'd wait for that. I don't think the IPC raise will be under say 8-10 %. Incidentally, 8% IPC gain was reportedly an earlier target/expectation for Zen 2 (with it ending up better).

It's possible Zen 3 picked more fruit that was expected so Zen 4 had too little opportunities to improve (Zen 4 is an evolved Zen 3 design before Zen 5 starts anew again).

BTW, AVX-512, Bfloat16 and VNNI were stated as present by AMD (they had some communication snafus around TDP, so I would be careful with saying "confirmed"), in techPowerUp's interview.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Zen 4 is really badKara2022/05/26 01:52 AM
  Zen 4 is really bad-.-2022/05/26 02:13 AM
    who is the champ right now?Michael S2022/05/26 03:36 AM
      who is the champ right now?Kara2022/05/26 04:16 AM
        Alder lake better than zen4!Kara2022/05/26 04:24 AM
          Alder lake better than zen4!Adrian2022/05/26 05:40 AM
            Alder lake better than zen4!anon22022/05/26 06:14 PM
              Alder lake better than zen4!Adrian2022/05/27 04:18 AM
                Alder lake better than zen4!Matt Hughes2022/05/28 11:15 PM
      who is the champ right now?-.-2022/05/26 05:23 AM
        who is the champ right now?Adrian2022/05/26 06:09 AM
          who is the champ right now?Andrei F2022/05/26 06:16 AM
            who is the champ right now?Adrian2022/05/26 07:10 AM
              who is the champ right now?Andrei F2022/05/26 07:37 AM
                who is the champ right now?Andrei F2022/05/26 07:59 AM
              who is the champ right now?Eric Fink2022/05/27 12:17 AM
                who is the champ right now?Adrian2022/05/27 05:41 AM
            Optimally?Anon2022/05/26 09:43 AM
              Optimally?Andrei F2022/05/26 12:10 PM
          who is the champ right now?-.-2022/05/26 06:43 PM
            who is the champ right now?Adrian2022/05/27 05:24 AM
          Nothing wrong with anads spec2006 results - see the breakdownHeikki Kultala2022/05/27 03:23 PM
            Nothing wrong with anads spec2006 results - see the breakdownDoug S2022/05/27 09:59 PM
              Nothing wrong with anads spec2006 results - see the breakdownMatt Hughes2022/05/28 06:32 PM
                Nothing wrong with anads spec2006 results - see the breakdownMichael S2022/05/29 01:44 AM
                  Nothing wrong with anads spec2006 results - see the breakdownAdrian2022/05/29 03:53 AM
    Zen 4 is really badAdrian2022/05/26 05:16 AM
      Zen 4 is really bad-.-2022/05/26 05:58 AM
        Zen 4 test conditionsAdrian2022/05/26 06:14 AM
          Zen 4 test conditionsGroo2022/05/26 06:01 PM
        Zen 4 ECCAdrian2022/05/26 06:33 AM
          Zen 4 ECC-.-2022/05/26 06:38 PM
            Zen 4 ECCAdrian2022/05/27 05:11 AM
              Zen 4 ECC-.-2022/05/27 08:30 PM
                Zen 4 ECCMichael S2022/05/28 11:19 AM
          Zen 4 ECCdrAgonear2022/05/26 11:58 PM
            Zen 4 ECCDavid Hess2022/05/30 07:29 PM
      Zen 4 is really badgoose2022/05/26 08:14 PM
        Zen 4 is really badAdrian2022/05/27 04:44 AM
          Zen 4 is really badJames2022/05/27 06:13 AM
  Zen 4 is really badJohn H2022/05/26 05:45 AM
  Zen 4 is really badDoug S2022/05/26 10:50 AM
    Zen 4 is really badDummond D. Slow2022/05/28 09:14 PM
      Zen 4 is really badDoug S2022/05/29 09:49 AM
  Please check the faxts instead of posting crap like thisHeikki Kultala2022/05/26 11:05 AM
    Zen 4 IPC2022/05/26 11:24 AM
      Zen 4 IPC and AVX-512Per Hesselgren2022/05/27 01:07 AM
        Zen 4 IPC and AVX-512Per Hesselgren2022/05/27 03:44 AM
        Zen 4 IPC and AVX-512Adrian2022/05/27 04:57 AM
          Zen 4 IPC and AVX-512anon2022/05/27 08:22 AM
  Zen 4 is really badParsnip2022/05/29 04:20 AM
    What do you mean by 3-wide desing?Heikki Kultala2022/05/29 01:05 PM
      What do you mean by 3-wide desing?Doug S2022/05/29 02:32 PM
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