Crazy CXL Names

By: anon2 (anon.delete@this.anon.com), May 31, 2022 2:20 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on May 31, 2022 1:21 am wrote:
> anon2 (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on May 30, 2022 7:19 pm wrote:
> > Peter Lewis (peter.delete@this.notyahoo.com) on May 30, 2022 3:54 pm wrote:
> > > Intel should admit that their implementation of Compute Express Link (CXL) in Sapphire Rapids has
> > > some bugs and doesn’t work. Intel should say there is no CXL in Sapphire Rapids and CXL will
> > > be included in the next Xeon after Sapphire Rapids, called Emerald Rapids. Instead of being sensible,
> > > Intel is saying that CXL has multiple protocols and the protocol needed for cache-coherent access
> > > to GPUs and PCIe-attached DRAM is not included in the first implementation.
> >
> > That's exactly what CXL is, that was in the CXL standard from the start.
> >
> > > This will cause a lot
> > > of confusion about the meaning of CXL support and makes Intel look ridiculous because the main
> > > purpose of CXL is cache-coherent access between CPUs, GPUs and PCIe-attached DRAM.
> >
> > No. PCI attached memory is not the same as cache coherency. It means it acts
> > like a memory controller (that may be used by coherent agents). And so far that
> > one is actually the main purpose of it, it has the most useful use cases.
> >
> > Cache coherency between CPUs and other masters like GPU or FPGA is the "cool" one that
> > everybody seems to think is awesome but so far very little proven use for it. Likely
> > Intel only reluctantly started CXL and included it to prevent momentum from building
> > behind NVIDIA/IBM/AMD/ARM/etc proposals do to such with their own standards.
>
> Full cache coherence over high-latency link is a horrible, horrible, horrible idea.
> Despite what Aaron Spink told me when we were at it last time about cache directory in every Xeon.
>
> And full cache coherence of FPGA-based accelerator is a horrible idea even over moderate-latency
> link, not just high-latency CXL. Because FPGA itself is high latency.

Right, I think it would be very difficult and constraining (or annoying at best) for CPUs to support, probably why Intel never liked the idea. Then you start getting devices that are marginal or broken in edge cases that break with different workload or new hardware yet customer expects it to still work when plugged into a new CPU...

>
> >
> > >
> > > Having 3 CXL protocols and allowing some of them to not be included in some CPUs is making
> > > the same type of mistake Intel made with USB 3 naming. There are 3 different speeds of USB
> > > 3 (5, 10 and 20 Gbit/s). Instead of naming them USB 3, USB 4 and USB 5, we have names like
> > > USB3.2Gen2x2. Intel is repeating this same craziness with CXL by having CXL.io, CXL.cache and
> > > CXL.mem. The end result will be that no one will know what it means when a CPU supports CXL.
> >
> > The naming is less stupid than many other names in technology actually. At least CXL.thing
> > gives a slightly descriptive name about what it is, WTF is "Emerald Rapids"?
> >
> > People will manage. Those who get confused to the point of being unable to even help themselves with
> > internet searches are not the people who could possibly do anything useful with the knowledge anyway.
>
> What is CXL.io ? From the name alone I can't figure out. Going
> by name it sounds *exactly* the same as normal PCIe.

As far as I can see it is PCIe with very small additions. No idea why they did not just make that part of PCIe 5 (or 5.1 or 6 or whatever). I don't know enough about PCIe but it would not surprise me if they only did it because very few devices or hosts will support the other CXL modes so then they can support this thing and then advertise how many devices and vendors support CXL.
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/30 03:54 PM
  Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/30 07:19 PM
    Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/30 09:30 PM
      Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/31 02:24 AM
        Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/31 02:43 AM
          Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/31 03:01 AM
            Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/31 03:36 AM
              Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/31 04:32 AM
                Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/31 05:21 AM
                  Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/31 06:03 AM
                    Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/31 04:27 PM
                      Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/31 04:58 PM
                      Crazy CXL Namesgoose2022/05/31 05:35 PM
                        Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/06/03 03:10 AM
                          Reason for Crazy CXL NamesGary Kopp2022/06/24 01:43 PM
                            Reason for Crazy CXL Namesdmcq2022/06/25 11:18 AM
                              Reason for Crazy CXL NamesMichael S2022/06/26 01:30 AM
                                Reason for Crazy CXL NamesDummond D. Slow2022/06/26 06:49 AM
                                  Reason for Crazy CXL NamesMichael S2022/06/26 07:32 AM
                                    Reason for Crazy CXL Namesdmcq2022/06/26 11:54 AM
                                Reason for Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/06/26 03:26 PM
                                  Reason for Crazy CXL NamesEric P2022/07/01 02:48 PM
                                    Reason for Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/07/01 07:56 PM
                                      Reason for Crazy CXL NamesGroo2022/07/02 05:13 AM
                                    Reason for Crazy CXL NamesUngo2022/07/01 11:14 PM
                                      Reason for Crazy CXL NamesEric P2022/07/05 03:21 AM
                      Crazy CXL NamesDoug S2022/06/01 12:44 AM
    Crazy CXL NamesMichael S2022/05/31 01:21 AM
      Crazy CXL Namesanon22022/05/31 02:20 AM
      Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/31 02:24 AM
        Crazy CXL NamesMichael S2022/05/31 03:07 AM
          Crazy CXL NamesPeter Lewis2022/05/31 04:37 AM
            Current NVidia GPU Launch Latency: 10 microsecondsMark Roulo2022/05/31 01:07 PM
              Current NVidia GPU Launch Latency: 10 microsecondsFreddie2022/06/01 09:44 AM
      Crazy CXL Names---2022/05/31 07:56 PM
        Crazy CXL Namesaaron spink2022/05/31 08:32 PM
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