You lost.

Article: A Preview of Intel's Bensley Platform (Part II)
By: Ray (a.delete@this.b.c), December 3, 2005 5:54 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Bill Todd (billtodd@metrocast.net) on 12/3/05 wrote:
---------------------------
>anonymous (no@mail.thanks) on 12/3/05 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>Bill Todd (billtodd@metrocast.net) on 12/2/05 wrote:
>>---------------------------
>>>Ray (a@b.c) on 12/2/05 wrote:
>>>
>>>I think there is real merit in trying to be polite all
>>>>the time.
>>>
>>>Really? For soldiers in combat, for example - or is it possible that you just
>>>glibly generalized without really thinking it through?
>>>
>>
>>*DING*
>>
>>Score 2,540,399 to Bill, Rest of the World - zero.
>>
>>Nice work, champ :)
>
>Who was that masked man? I just wanted to thank him...
>
>Actually, I don't see this as a game (nor, of course, would I see Ray as an adversary
>in it even if I did). Games are supposed to be fun, and attempting to educate the
>persistently obdurate is not fun - it is more an obligation the need for which I wish would just go away.
>
>Unfortunately, over the past several years tens of thousands of Iraqis have been
>killed because the American public is too damned incompetent and/or intellectually
>lazy and/or homicidally self-centered to have faced up to its responsibility to
>prevent our out-of-control administration from its fascist adventurism. And the
>fact that those Iraqis have been killed by my own country and purportedly in my
>name makes me take the matter very personally.
>
>If I could eliminate the problem by pushing a button and turning Washington, D.C.,
>into a heap of radioactive slag I believe that would be the appropriate thing to
>do, appalling though the 'collateral damage' would be (failing, of course, access
>to far better solutions such as hauling most of our national government, minimally
>including the administration and everyone in Congress who voted for the Iraq War
>Resolution, into the International Court at The Hague on war crimes charges - though
>in the cases of Bush, Cheney, and several others trying them in a Texas court would
>have some aspects of poetic justice to it).

Hmm. I am not an American, and I am very pleased that the USA attacked Iraq and deposed Saddam. Yes, several thousand Iraqis have died as a result, but you do not take into account the cost of doing nothing. Averaged over three decades, Saddam killed at least a hundred people a day, and that measure ignores rapes, torture, unjust imprisonment, and displacement of peoples that he objected to. I have family living in a dictatorship. Do not underestimate the plight of the Iraqi peoples under Saddam.

For me, it is a similar moral situation to watching a gang commit rape and murder in an adjoining car park. I feel obligated to do something about it, because someone has to provide negative feedback to preserve society, even if the negative feedback isn't perfect. Iraq was a very good place to start, and provides a potential solution for a lot of problems for the USA. It's a good example of inspired self-interest that I think will truly make the world better for millions of non-Americans.

I was born in a war zone, and yet I consider war to be morally neutral. It is an imperfect tool with some very nasty costs associated with it. Like any tool, it is how it is used, and I firmly support the USA's use (and generally, the manner of its use) of this tool in this instance.

I spend up to an hour a day keeping track of what goes on in Iraq, depending on what information is available. The invasion of Iraq has been a fantastic success, by any realistic measure: number of combat fatalities, objectives achieved, civilian fatalities, regional politics.
I supported it expecting it to be far messier and way slower, so I am pleased at the progress shown. 2000 combat fatalities for invading a country with a good-sized standing army? Fantastic.

There are many things the USA has done that I object to (though usually the CIA or State Department were mostly responsible), but this isn't one of them.

I have seen some pretty awful places, and I wish Americans would realise just how wonderful their country is, and how much of a force for good it is in the world. There aren't very many places that compare.

I just wish Americans (and even more, Europeans) wouldn't be so quick to give foreign aid to third world countries - I have direct experience with just how many people that kills in the long term. The war in Iraq is chicken feed next to the number of people that die in kleptocracies that only exist because foreign aid makes them possible, or farmers that starve because donated food destroyed their markets. Maybe I should make some "No Foreign Aid!" bumper stickers.

Oh, and as someone who has been on the other end of the stick, I have no respect for the UN whatsoever. It is the largest, most corrupt cesspit produced in the history of man, run by the scions of despots with no auditing done whatsoever. Assuming the usual evil political taint of the UN hasn't destroyed the impartialness of the Hague (and assuming said impartialness ever existed), I suspect Bush and friends would have little to worry about. Certainly, I can think of a few hundred people the Hague should deal with first.

The only thing that could make things worse now than before Saddam was deposed, would be if the USA left. You may argue that the invasion was a bad idea. Well, leaving too soon would be a calamity. Iraq needs to be another Germany or Japan (for neither of which I am aware of an "exit strategy"), or even another South Korea, not another Vietnam.

Nuke D.C. if you want, but make sure your new governent doesn't leave Iraq too soon, because then you will be responsible for the deaths of millions over several decades.

In short, I see nothing self evidently moral about your posture, nor do I find it particularly well thought out.

Oh, and I don't think the word "fascist" means what you think it means. I notice this problem in most US university graduates, though I suspect the problem started in certain EU academic institutions.

Now that we have both expressed completely irrelevant opinions on this technical board, let's continue with our normal programming. :-)

Ciao,
Ray
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/29 01:45 AM
  Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineTemp2005/11/29 06:25 AM
    Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/29 11:55 AM
      Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineTemp2005/11/29 02:29 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) Onlinerwessel2005/11/29 02:53 PM
    Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDean Kent2005/11/29 12:01 PM
      Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineWilliam Campbell2005/11/29 12:48 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/29 01:37 PM
          Well said! (NT)savantu2005/11/29 01:44 PM
          Peer reviewWilliam Campbell2005/11/29 04:12 PM
            To clarify intentWilliam Campbell2005/11/29 04:19 PM
            Peer reviewDavid Kanter2005/11/29 04:21 PM
              Peer reviewWilliam Campbell2005/11/29 06:13 PM
                Peer reviewnick2005/11/29 11:09 PM
                  Peer reviewWilliam Campbell2005/11/30 12:39 AM
                    Peer reviewDavid Kanter2005/11/30 01:21 AM
                Peer reviewDavid Kanter2005/11/29 11:25 PM
                  Yes please (NT)William Campbell2005/11/30 12:28 AM
                    Yes please (NT)David Kanter2005/11/30 06:19 PM
                      Thank youWilliam Campbell2005/11/30 08:51 PM
                        Thank youDavid Kanter2005/11/30 10:29 PM
            Peer reviewDean Kent2005/11/29 07:12 PM
              Peer reviewWilliam Campbell2005/11/29 07:50 PM
                Peer reviewDean Kent2005/11/30 05:16 AM
                  Peer reviewWilliam Campbell2005/11/30 08:49 PM
                    Peer reviewTemp2005/12/01 03:02 AM
                      Peer reviewWilliam Campbell2005/12/01 04:54 AM
                        Peer reviewTemp2005/12/01 05:11 AM
                  Peer reviewTemp2005/12/01 03:03 AM
                    Peer reviewDean Kent2005/12/01 07:55 AM
                      Peer reviewBill Todd2005/12/01 08:26 PM
                        Peer reviewDavid Kanter2005/12/01 09:52 PM
                          Peer reviewBill Todd2005/12/01 10:14 PM
                            Peer reviewDavid Kanter2005/12/01 11:04 PM
                              Peer reviewBill Todd2005/12/02 12:13 AM
                            Peer reviewDean Kent2005/12/02 07:02 AM
                              You lost this one.Ray2005/12/02 11:54 AM
                                You lost.tecate2005/12/02 02:55 PM
                                  I second that (NT)savantu2005/12/02 03:22 PM
                                  I wasn't in the game.Ray2005/12/02 04:19 PM
                                    I wasn't in the game.Dean Kent2005/12/02 10:20 PM
                                  You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/02 05:28 PM
                                    You lost.Anonymous2005/12/02 08:27 PM
                                      You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/02 08:56 PM
                                        You lost.Dean Kent2005/12/02 10:37 PM
                                          You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/03 12:08 AM
                                            All about the contextDavid Kanter2005/12/03 02:27 PM
                                              All about the contextBill Todd2005/12/03 02:51 PM
                                                All about the contextDavid Kanter2005/12/03 04:29 PM
                                    You lost.Ray2005/12/02 09:15 PM
                                      You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/02 10:00 PM
                                        You lost.Ray2005/12/02 11:09 PM
                                        You lost.anonymous2005/12/03 02:42 AM
                                          You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/03 02:45 PM
                                            Well...David Kanter2005/12/03 03:51 PM
                                            You lost.Ray2005/12/03 05:54 PM
                                              Bill is a self loathing AmericanNIKOLAS2005/12/03 06:25 PM
                                                Bill is a self loathing AmericanBill Todd2005/12/03 09:40 PM
                                                  Bill is a self loathing AmericanBill Todd2005/12/03 09:48 PM
                                                Bill is a self loathing AmericanDavid Kanter2005/12/03 09:48 PM
                                                  Bill is a self loathing AmericanBill Todd2005/12/03 11:17 PM
                                                    Bill is a self loathing AmericanDavid Kanter2005/12/04 12:37 AM
                                                      Bill is a self loathing AmericanBill Todd2005/12/04 01:19 AM
                                                        This whole thread is a symptom...Dean Kent2005/12/04 09:43 AM
                                                          This whole thread is a symptom...tecate2005/12/04 01:17 PM
                                                            This whole thread is a symptom...mas2005/12/04 02:02 PM
                                                              This whole thread is a symptom...tecate2005/12/05 06:21 AM
                                                          This whole thread is a symptom...tecate2005/12/04 01:18 PM
                                                          ...Temp2005/12/04 03:38 PM
                                                            ...Dean Kent2005/12/04 05:25 PM
                                                              Once more, alasTemp2005/12/05 02:23 AM
                                                                Once more, alasDean Kent2005/12/05 08:23 AM
                                                                  ByeTemp2005/12/05 10:47 AM
                                                                  Once more, alasBill Todd2005/12/05 10:58 AM
                                                              Sungard as a benchmarkTemp2005/12/05 03:42 AM
                                                                Sungard as a benchmarkDean Kent2005/12/05 10:06 AM
                                                                Sungard as a benchmarkDavid Kanter2005/12/05 08:08 PM
                                                                  Sungard as a benchmarkTemp2005/12/06 01:45 AM
                                                                    More info about SungardTemp2005/12/06 03:20 PM
                                                                      More info about SungardDavid Kanter2005/12/06 04:25 PM
                                                                        More info about SungardTemp2005/12/07 12:40 AM
                                                                        More info about SungardDean Kent2005/12/07 07:52 AM
                                                                      More info about SungardDean Kent2005/12/06 07:22 PM
                                                          This whole thread is a symptom...Bill Todd2005/12/04 09:31 PM
                                                            This whole thread is a symptom...Dean Kent2005/12/04 09:51 PM
                                              You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/03 11:14 PM
                                                You lost.Ray2005/12/04 01:06 AM
                                                  You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/04 01:54 AM
                                                    Enough with the politics... (NT)David Kanter2005/12/04 03:41 AM
                                            You lost.anonymous2005/12/04 04:03 AM
                                              Well Said! (NT)Anonymous2005/12/04 04:48 AM
                                              You lost.savantu2005/12/04 06:47 AM
                                              You lost.Bill Todd2005/12/04 09:39 PM
                                                You lost.anonymous2005/12/05 02:51 AM
                                You lost this one.Dean Kent2005/12/02 09:41 PM
                                  You lost this one.Leonov2005/12/03 12:55 AM
                                    You lost this one.tecate2005/12/03 05:27 AM
                                      You lost this one.Leonov2005/12/03 06:33 AM
                                        You lost this one.savantu2005/12/03 10:19 AM
                                          You lost this one.Leonov2005/12/03 12:19 PM
                                        For god sake.Anonymous2005/12/04 04:28 AM
                                          It's sadsav2005/12/04 06:43 AM
                                            It's sadmas2005/12/04 07:09 AM
                                              It's sadMichael S2005/12/04 07:33 AM
                                              PerfectNo one you'd know2005/12/04 10:52 AM
                                                Perfectmas2005/12/04 12:32 PM
                                                  PerfectDean Kent2005/12/04 12:50 PM
                                                    Perfectmas2005/12/04 01:16 PM
                                                      PerfectDean Kent2005/12/04 04:22 PM
                                                        Posts deleted, topic not open for discussionDavid Kanter2005/12/05 02:05 PM
                                                          Posts deleted, topic not open for discussionKeith Fiske2005/12/05 05:03 PM
                                              This will not be toleratedDavid Kanter2005/12/04 04:32 PM
                                          For god sake.Leonov2005/12/05 07:10 AM
                                            Back on track...Dean Kent2005/12/05 12:35 PM
                                              Back on track...Leonov2005/12/06 03:08 AM
                                  You lost this one.Temp2005/12/03 04:16 AM
                        Peer reviewDean Kent2005/12/02 06:22 AM
                          Peer reviewTemp2005/12/02 12:01 PM
      Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) Onlinean2005/11/29 01:17 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/29 02:17 PM
          Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) Onlinean2005/11/30 07:52 AM
            Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/30 10:42 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDean Kent2005/11/29 04:11 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) Onlineanonymous2005/11/29 05:38 PM
          It's calledWilliam Campbell2005/11/29 06:17 PM
      Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineTemp2005/11/29 02:41 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/29 03:02 PM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDean Kent2005/11/29 07:41 PM
  2 small nitpicksan2005/11/29 02:03 PM
    2 small nitpicksDaniel Bizó2005/11/29 03:27 PM
      2 small nitpicksan2005/11/30 07:40 AM
        2 small nitpicksDaniel Bizó2005/11/30 11:17 AM
          2 small nitpicksan2005/11/30 12:30 PM
            2 small nitpicksDavid Kanter2005/11/30 02:32 PM
              2 small nitpicksan2005/11/30 02:49 PM
  Minor Comment about CineBenchRakesh Malik2005/11/29 02:22 PM
  Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlinePiedPiper2005/11/29 08:04 PM
    Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlinePiedPiper2005/11/29 08:08 PM
      Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/11/30 02:05 AM
        Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlinePiedPiper2005/11/30 07:58 PM
          Bensley Platform Preview (Part II) OnlineDavid Kanter2005/12/01 01:45 AM
  Why no 64-bit tests?PiedPiper2005/11/29 08:37 PM
    Why no 64-bit tests?David Kanter2005/11/30 02:07 AM
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