Hybrid (micro)kernels

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.osdl.org), May 15, 2006 4:39 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
mas (mas769@hotmail.com) on 5/15/06 wrote:
>
>Don't know if you saw Tanenbaum's latest defence of
>microkernels but here it is if not.

I think he - and even more so Shapiro - kind of end up
discussing past the point.

Claiming that "embedded" OS's are secure, for example,
is laughable. The whole point of an embedded system is
that it doesn't even allow (much less support) the
huge majority of things that make security hard.

Shapiro (and to some degree Tanenbaum) also makes the
mistake of equating different address spaces with the
notion of modularity. They have nothing to do with each
other. You can be modular without using hardware to enforce
it, and you can generate a horribly messy system where
two processes are intimately aware of how each other works
even if they are separated by MMU boundaries.

As I already alluded to (and expanded on in my reply to
myself), I actually think using "designer languages" may
be a much better solution to the modularity problem than
the microkernel approach. The C model is very much one
where you have to do all the modularity by hand (which
Linux does, btw - don't get me wrong).

That said, I still think Tanenbaum's book on OS design
is one of the best ones around. So I'll happily disagree
with him, and I can still give the man credit for being
a big reason for getting involved and interested in UNIX
in the first place!

Linus
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Hybrid (micro)kernelsTzvetan Mikov2006/05/08 03:41 PM
  Hybrid (micro)kernelsS. Rao2006/05/08 05:14 PM
  Hybrid (micro)kernelsBill Todd2006/05/08 05:16 PM
    Hybrid (micro)kernelsTzvetan Mikov2006/05/08 06:21 PM
      Hybrid (micro)kernelsnick2006/05/08 06:50 PM
      Hybrid (micro)kernelsBill Todd2006/05/09 12:26 AM
        There aren't enough words...Rob Thorpe2006/05/09 01:39 AM
          There aren't enough words...Tzvetan Mikov2006/05/09 02:10 PM
            There aren't enough words...Rob Thorpe2006/05/14 11:25 PM
        Hybrid (micro)kernelsTzvetan Mikov2006/05/09 10:17 AM
          Hybrid (micro)kernelsBill Todd2006/05/09 03:05 PM
  Hybrid (micro)kernelsrwessel2006/05/08 10:23 PM
    Hybrid kernel, not NTRichard Urich2006/05/09 05:03 AM
      Hybrid kernel, not NT_Arthur2006/05/09 06:06 AM
        Hybrid kernel, not NTRob Thorpe2006/05/09 06:40 AM
          Hybrid kernel, not NT_Arthur2006/05/09 07:30 AM
            Hybrid kernel, not NTRob Thorpe2006/05/09 08:07 AM
              Hybrid kernel, not NT_Arthur2006/05/09 08:36 AM
                Linux vs MacOSX peformance, debunked_Arthur2006/05/18 06:30 AM
                  Linux vs MacOSX peformance, debunkedRob Thorpe2006/05/18 07:19 AM
                    Linux vs MacOSX peformance, debunkedAnonymous2006/05/18 11:31 AM
        Hybrid kernel, not NTLinus Torvalds2006/05/09 07:16 AM
          Hybrid kernel, not NTAndi Kleen2006/05/09 01:32 PM
            Hybrid kernel, not NTmyself2006/05/09 02:24 PM
              Hybrid kernel, not NTmyself2006/05/09 02:41 PM
              Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/09 04:26 PM
                Hybrid kernel, not NTLinus Torvalds2006/05/09 07:06 PM
                  Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/13 12:35 AM
                    Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/13 03:40 AM
                      Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/13 08:48 AM
                        Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/13 06:41 PM
                          Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/13 08:51 PM
                            Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/14 04:57 PM
                              Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/14 09:40 PM
                                Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/14 10:46 PM
                                  Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/15 03:00 AM
                                    Hybrid kernel, not NTrwessel2006/05/15 06:21 AM
                                      Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/15 07:55 AM
                                        Hybrid kernel, not NTLinus Torvalds2006/05/15 08:49 AM
                                          Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/15 03:41 PM
                                          Hybrid kernel, not NTtony roth2008/01/31 01:20 PM
                                    Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/15 05:33 PM
                                      Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/16 12:39 AM
                                        Hybrid kernel, not NTnick2006/05/16 01:53 AM
                                          Hybrid kernel, not NTBrendan2006/05/16 04:37 AM
                  Hybrid kernel, not NTAnonymous2008/05/01 09:31 PM
                    Following the structure of the treeMichael S2008/05/02 03:19 AM
                      Following the structure of the treeDean Kent2008/05/02 04:31 AM
                        Following the structure of the treeMichael S2008/05/02 05:02 AM
                        Following the structure of the treeDavid W. Hess2008/05/02 05:48 AM
                          Following the structure of the treeDean Kent2008/05/02 08:14 AM
                            Following the structure of the treeDavid W. Hess2008/05/02 09:05 AM
                              LOL!Dean Kent2008/05/02 09:33 AM
                              Following the structure of the treeanonymous2008/05/02 02:04 PM
                                Following the structure of the treeDean Kent2008/05/02 06:52 PM
                                Following the structure of the treeFoo_2008/05/03 01:01 AM
                                  Following the structure of the treeDavid W. Hess2008/05/03 05:54 AM
                                    Following the structure of the treeDean Kent2008/05/03 09:06 AM
                                      Following the structure of the treeFoo_2008/05/04 12:06 AM
                                        Following the structure of the treeMichael S2008/05/04 12:22 AM
            Hybrid kernel, not NTLinus Torvalds2006/05/09 04:19 PM
              Microkernel Vs Monolithic KernelKernel_Protector2006/05/09 08:41 PM
                Microkernel Vs Monolithic KernelDavid Kanter2006/05/09 09:30 PM
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                  Microkernel Vs Monolithic Kernelblah2006/05/12 07:58 PM
                  Microkernel Vs Monolithic KernelRob Thorpe2006/05/15 12:41 AM
          Hybrid kernel, not NTAnalGuy2006/05/16 02:10 AM
            Theory versus practiceDavid Kanter2006/05/16 11:55 AM
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        Hybrid (micro)kernelsRob Thorpe2006/05/16 12:22 AM
          Hybrid (micro)kernelsrwessel2006/05/16 10:23 AM
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                Hybrid (micro)kernelsRob Thorpe2006/05/19 06:51 AM
                  Hybrid (micro)kernelsrwessel2006/05/19 11:27 AM
      Hybrid (micro)kernelstechIperson2006/05/15 12:25 PM
      Hybrid (micro)kernelsmas2006/05/15 04:17 PM
        Hybrid (micro)kernelsLinus Torvalds2006/05/15 04:39 PM
          Hybrid (micro)kernelsColonel Kernel2006/05/15 08:17 PM
            Hybrid (micro)kernelsWink Saville2006/05/15 09:31 PM
              Hybrid (micro)kernelsLinus Torvalds2006/05/16 09:08 AM
                Hybrid (micro)kernelsWink Saville2006/05/16 08:55 PM
          Hybrid (micro)kernelsrwessel2006/05/16 10:31 AM
            Hybrid (micro)kernelsLinus Torvalds2006/05/16 11:00 AM
        Hybrid (micro)kernelsBrendan2006/05/16 12:36 AM
        Hybrid (micro)kernelsPaul Elliott2006/09/03 07:44 AM
          Hybrid (micro)kernelsRob Thorpe2006/09/04 08:25 AM
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  Hybrid (micro)kernelsisrael2006/05/20 03:25 AM
    Hybrid (micro)kernelsRob Thorpe2006/05/22 07:35 AM
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