Windows manages memory differently

By: Tzvetan Mikov (tzvetanmi.delete@this.yahoo.com), May 14, 2007 8:56 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
JasonB (no@spam.com) on 5/14/07 wrote:
---------------------------
>It's not the kernel having the problem, it's the application not being able to
>use the full 2GB of physical (and virtual) address space that should be available
>to it, and one of the big causes of that is virtual address space fragmentation.
>
>The point is that it starts to be an issue way before the theoretical 4GB
>limitation of 32 bit computers. Anything that attempts to use much more than half
>of a 2GB system's memory needs to take care to avoid having problems, and a memory
>footprint of "more than 1GB" is a lot less unusual for a modern desktop app than "4GB".

I agree with you 100%. If you have a single application requiring about 2GB of virtual space, it clearly calls for 64-bit. It actually has nothing to with RAM amount. I think you are perfectly justified to beat you customers on the head until they use a 64-bit OS.

I am thinking about the general case of 32-bit Windows having to deal with > 1 GB RAM present. I explained in my previous post that it doesn't seem that Windows is constrained in the same way that Linux is - there shouldn't be additional overhead in handling 2-3GB RAM, compared to 1GB RAM. Linus'es comment, while undoubtedly true, is perhaps not completely general as far as Windows is concerned.

(Of course this is at the expense of complexity - for an ex-Windows kernel developer the Linux kernel seems like a revelation)

Consider the case when the user is running many applications but none of them require more than a GB of _virtual space_, let alone RAM. 2 GB of RAM should serve this case nicely.

Are we technically justified in requiring a 64-bit OS for that? Linus says yes - I tend to agree that the comparative simplicity of the Linux design is worth it. Still, it is interesting to discuss the alternatives. It is a pity that Dave Cuttler doesn't post here regularly :-)

regards,
Tzvetan
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Rock/Tukwila rumorsmas2007/05/05 12:59 PM
  Rock/Tukwila rumorsDavid Kanter2007/05/05 02:33 PM
    Rock/Tukwila rumorsDean Kent2007/05/05 03:35 PM
      K8 vs Win64 timelineanonymous2007/05/05 06:19 PM
        Yes, I misremembered...Dean Kent2007/05/05 10:03 PM
    RockDaniel Biz√≥2007/05/06 02:34 AM
      RockDean Kent2007/05/06 07:11 AM
    Rock/Tukwila rumorsJoe2007/05/06 11:24 AM
      Rock/Tukwila rumorsDean Kent2007/05/06 11:49 AM
      Rock/Tukwila rumorsLinus Torvalds2007/05/06 12:09 PM
      Rock/Tukwila rumorsanon2007/05/07 01:32 AM
        Rock/Tukwila rumorsRakesh Malik2007/05/07 09:36 AM
          Rock/Tukwila rumorsMichael S2007/05/07 10:06 AM
          Rock/Tukwila rumorsanon2007/05/07 09:48 PM
            Rock/Tukwila rumorsRakesh Malik2007/05/08 06:45 AM
              Rock/Tukwila rumorsanon2007/05/08 05:30 PM
                Wow. (nt)Brannon2007/05/08 06:16 PM
                Rock/Tukwila rumorsrwessel2007/05/08 09:48 PM
                  Rock/Tukwila rumorsJS2007/05/08 10:07 PM
                    Rock/Tukwila rumorsJS2007/05/09 06:44 AM
                Rock/Tukwila rumorsRakesh Malik2007/05/09 05:35 AM
                  Much ado about xMichael S2007/05/09 09:39 AM
                    Call it x86-64Linus Torvalds2007/05/09 10:27 AM
                      (i)AMD64Michael S2007/05/09 12:16 PM
                        (i)AMD64Linus Torvalds2007/05/09 12:29 PM
                          (i)AMD64Groo2007/05/09 04:45 PM
                          TIFNAAanonymous2007/05/09 05:49 PM
                            Inspired by FYR Macedonia? (NT)Michael S2007/05/09 11:21 PM
                              More likely...rwessel2007/05/10 12:39 AM
                            TIFNAAGabriele Svelto2007/05/09 11:57 PM
                          (i)AMD64James2007/05/10 02:27 AM
                        i86Dean Kent2007/05/09 12:30 PM
                        (i)AMD64Max2007/05/09 01:28 PM
                          wide86? long86?hobold2007/05/10 05:05 AM
                            x87 perhaps, it is one more. :) (NT)Groo2007/05/10 05:50 AM
                              x86+Dean Kent2007/05/10 08:44 AM
                                Does it really matter?Doug Siebert2007/05/10 09:10 AM
                                  let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseMarcin Niewiadomski2007/05/10 11:50 AM
                                    let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseDean Kent2007/05/11 06:11 AM
                                      let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaserwessel2007/05/11 02:46 PM
                                        let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseDean Kent2007/05/11 06:03 PM
                                          let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseMichael S2007/05/12 10:49 AM
                                            let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseDean Kent2007/05/12 01:05 PM
                                              let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseMichael S2007/05/12 01:25 PM
                                                let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseDean Kent2007/05/12 03:39 PM
                                                  let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseJasonB2007/05/13 07:43 AM
                                                    client consolidationMichael S2007/05/13 08:37 AM
                                                  let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseTzvetan Mikov2007/05/13 03:44 PM
                                                let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaserwessel2007/05/14 02:42 PM
                                      What's your point?Doug Siebert2007/05/11 02:56 PM
                                        What's your point?Linus Torvalds2007/05/11 04:15 PM
                                          What's your point?Doug Siebert2007/05/13 03:11 PM
                                            What's your point?Dean Kent2007/05/13 07:04 PM
                                              What's your point?JasonB2007/05/14 02:06 AM
                                                What's your point?Dean Kent2007/05/14 07:20 AM
                                                  What's your point?JasonB2007/05/14 04:35 PM
                                                  What's your point?JasonB2007/05/14 07:35 PM
                                                    What's your point?Dean Kent2007/05/14 08:12 PM
                                        What's your point?Dean Kent2007/05/11 06:06 PM
                                        What's your point?Stephen H2007/05/13 01:55 AM
                                          Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?David W. Hess2007/05/13 08:37 AM
                                            PAE sucks (Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?)Linus Torvalds2007/05/13 10:20 AM
                                              PAE sucks (Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?)Dean Kent2007/05/13 10:49 AM
                                              PAE sucks (Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?)David W. Hess2007/05/13 12:37 PM
                                              > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemTzvetan Mikov2007/05/13 01:44 PM
                                                > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemS. Rao2007/05/13 03:00 PM
                                                  > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemTzvetan Mikov2007/05/13 05:32 PM
                                                    > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemS. Rao2007/05/14 12:19 AM
                                                > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemLinus Torvalds2007/05/13 03:46 PM
                                                  > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemTzvetan Mikov2007/05/13 05:23 PM
                                                  > 1 GB RAM on a 32-bit systemJasonB2007/05/13 06:37 PM
                                                    Windows manages memory differentlyTzvetan Mikov2007/05/13 08:31 PM
                                                      Windows manages memory differentlyJasonB2007/05/14 01:50 AM
                                                        Windows manages memory differentlyTzvetan Mikov2007/05/14 08:56 AM
                                                          Windows manages memory differentlyrwessel2007/05/14 03:40 PM
                                                            Windows manages memory differentlyDavid W. Hess2007/05/14 04:07 PM
                                                              Windows manages memory differentlyrwessel2007/05/14 04:51 PM
                                                            Windows manages memory differentlyTzvetan Mikov2007/05/14 05:40 PM
                                                              Windows manages memory differentlyrwessel2007/05/14 06:09 PM
                                                      Windows manages memory differentlyHoward Chu2007/05/14 11:17 AM
                                                        Windows manages memory differentlyJukka Larja2007/05/14 11:30 AM
                                                        Windows manages memory differentlyTzvetan Mikov2007/05/14 01:54 PM
                                                          Windows manages memory differentlyHoward Chu2007/05/15 03:35 AM
                                                            Windows manages memory differentlyGroo2007/05/15 07:34 AM
                                                      Anyone know what OS X (10.4, Intel, desktop) does?Matt Sayler2007/05/15 06:23 AM
                                                        Anyone know what OS X (10.4, Intel, desktop) does?Wes Felter2007/05/15 08:37 AM
                                                        Anyone know what OS X (10.4, Intel, desktop) does?Anonymous2007/05/15 10:49 AM
                                                        Anyone know what OS X (10.4, Intel, desktop) does?anon22007/05/15 07:13 PM
                                              PAE sucks (Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?)Paul2007/05/13 03:40 PM
                                                PAE sucks (Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?)Peter Arremann2007/05/13 05:38 PM
                                                  PAE sucks (Why didn't MS take advantage of PAE?)Henrik S2007/05/14 03:31 AM
                                              The fragility of your argumentslacker2007/05/13 03:56 PM
                                                The fragility of your argumentnick2007/05/13 05:42 PM
                                                The fragility of your argumentHoward Chu2007/05/14 02:52 AM
                                                  The fragility of your argumentDean Kent2007/05/14 09:19 AM
                                                The fragility of your argumentanon22007/05/14 08:26 AM
                                                  The fragility of your argumentTzvetan Mikov2007/05/14 09:01 AM
                                                  The fragility of your argumentDean Kent2007/05/14 09:16 AM
                                                    The fragility of your argumentLinus Torvalds2007/05/14 11:57 AM
                                                      The fragility of your argumentJasonB2007/05/14 04:48 PM
                                                        The fragility of your argumentDean Kent2007/05/14 07:36 PM
                                                          The fragility of your argumentRicardo B2007/05/16 02:40 AM
                                                            The fragility of your argumentDean Kent2007/05/16 03:32 AM
                                                              The fragility of your argumentRicardo B2007/05/16 06:41 AM
                                                                PSRicardo B2007/05/16 06:50 AM
                                                                The fragility of your argumentDean Kent2007/05/16 09:07 AM
                                                                  Modern web browsingS. Rao2007/05/16 09:16 AM
                                                                    Aha!Dean Kent2007/05/16 09:27 AM
                                                                      Aha!Dean Kent2007/05/16 09:32 AM
                                                                        Aha!S. Rao2007/05/16 10:34 AM
                                                                  The fragility of your argumentRicardo B2007/05/16 10:00 AM
                                                      The fragility of your argumentVincent Diepeveen2007/05/16 10:10 AM
                                                        The fragility of your argumentPaul2007/05/16 03:01 PM
                                                          The fragility of your argumentVincent Diepeveen2007/05/17 03:05 AM
                                                    The fragility of your argumentanon22007/05/15 01:35 AM
                                                    Splits vs page allocations?Matt Sayler2007/05/15 07:33 AM
                                          What's your point?Michael S2007/05/13 08:55 AM
                                            What's your point?anonymous2007/05/13 11:08 AM
                                              What's your point?Michael S2007/05/13 11:31 AM
                                      let's stay with x86-64 for now, pleaseJasonB2007/05/13 07:16 AM
                                x864 =) (NT)some12007/05/15 03:03 AM
    Rock/Tukwila rumorsIntelUser20002007/05/06 02:27 PM
  Rock/Tukwila rumorsm2007/05/13 08:05 AM
  Rock/Tukwila rumorsmas2007/05/15 09:40 AM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell green?