Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?

By: Andi Kleen (ak-rwt.delete@this.muc.de), June 29, 2007 4:36 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
philt (ptay1685@bigpond.net.au) on 6/29/07 wrote:
---------------------------
>Linus Torvalds (torvalds@osdl.org) on 6/28/07 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>philt (ptay1685@bigpond.net.au) on 6/28/07 wrote:
>>>
>>>FYI just had a look at the Intel pdf for Core 2 errata.
>>>Amazed at the number of errata listed.
>>
>>Read that as:
>>"Amazed that Intel actually tells the world, rather than
>>hiding it under the rug".
>>
>
>Is it really so amazing? The bugs exist in reality, whether they admit them or
>not.

Depends. A lot are in very contrived circumstances
that are unlikely to be hit in any real situation
(usually found then with randomized tests)

>Sooner or later the bugs will cause problems for someone, >either software developers
>or end users,

Unlikely for most of them I would say.


>As I said - they were kind of forced to admit the bugs, or completely lose their
>reputation. Not really something to praise them for. Like naughty children they
>only came clean after they were "found out".

The point was that most other chip companies are still
naughty children in your terminology (tried to get
an errata sheet for the ARM CPU in your cellphone
recently?)

>Nothing is perfect, but the IT industry as a whole seems to scrape the bottom of
>the barrel. I guess this is inevtiable with the pace of change. I for one would
>be happier if it all got slowed down.

At some point Moore's law will run out of steam
(as in chips cannot be shrunken anymore; ok
they might add more layers then but at some
point that will also run into some bottleneck
and transistor limits will not raise anymore)
Just nobody knows when it will be. But likely
(unless you're already quite old) you'll live
to see it. Perhaps you'll be happy then.

>It would be nice for once to buy something
>that didnt become outmoded junk three weeks after it was purchased.

As long as it works for you it's not outmodded junk.
Most of the PCs bought 5 years ago are still perfectly
usable even with most modern software (yes there
are exceptions, but it's still generally true)

>and then
>the industry can put efforts into bug eradication rather than continual peformance
>enhancement, and the things will become truly reliable.

Typically each new stepping fixes a few bugs. But
if they cannot fix the problem without a larger
redesign they won't do that because the redesign
would be likely to add even more bugs. That's a common
problem in complex systems, unlikely to be solved generally.

>One can only dream.

Your expectations are somewhat unrealistic.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Matt Sayler2007/06/27 11:39 AM
  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?anonymous2007/06/27 02:08 PM
  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?David Kanter2007/06/27 02:34 PM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Joe Chang2007/06/27 03:01 PM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?A.T. Ho2007/06/27 04:33 PM
      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?David Kanter2007/06/27 06:31 PM
      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Andi Kleen2007/06/28 12:35 AM
        Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?anonymous2007/06/28 04:16 AM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Jack A.2007/06/29 07:43 PM
      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?anon2007/07/01 10:13 AM
        AMD DocumentationDavid Kanter2007/07/01 11:03 AM
  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Andi Kleen2007/06/27 04:02 PM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Paul2007/06/27 05:06 PM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Groo2007/06/28 01:10 AM
  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Linus Torvalds2007/06/27 05:10 PM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Rob Thorpe2007/06/28 01:11 AM
      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?JS2007/06/28 04:32 AM
        Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Rob Thorpe2007/06/28 05:15 AM
          Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?JS2007/06/28 09:55 PM
            Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Rob Thorpe2007/06/29 12:44 AM
      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Linus Torvalds2007/06/28 08:30 AM
        Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/28 04:28 PM
          Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Linus Torvalds2007/06/28 07:31 PM
            Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/29 01:58 AM
              Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?IlleglWpns2007/06/29 02:23 AM
                Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/29 08:16 PM
              Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Andi Kleen2007/06/29 04:36 AM
                Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/29 08:09 PM
                  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Brendan2007/06/29 11:04 PM
                    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/30 01:52 AM
                      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Brendan2007/06/30 09:25 AM
                  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Jukka Larja2007/06/29 11:22 PM
                  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?dan2007/07/05 12:36 PM
              Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Dean Kent2007/06/29 07:31 AM
                Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/29 07:57 PM
                  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Dean Kent2007/06/29 08:50 PM
                    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/06/30 01:57 AM
                      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Dean Kent2007/06/30 05:34 AM
                        Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/07/02 03:33 AM
                          Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Dean Kent2007/07/02 05:36 AM
                            Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?philt2007/07/02 03:02 PM
                              Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?JS2007/07/02 10:02 PM
                      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?David Kanter2007/07/02 03:20 PM
            Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Max2007/06/29 11:23 AM
        Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Rob Thorpe2007/06/29 06:15 AM
          Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Michael S2007/06/29 06:57 AM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?jozzete2007/06/29 12:54 AM
  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Brendan2007/06/28 07:15 PM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?france2007/06/28 10:38 PM
  Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?rwessel2007/06/29 03:20 AM
    Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?jschlossel2007/06/29 10:16 AM
      Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Dean Kent2007/06/29 10:25 AM
        Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?Howard Chu2007/06/30 05:09 AM
          Core 2 Errata -- problematic or overblown?JS2007/07/02 04:58 AM
      baby and bath waterrels2007/06/30 07:00 AM
      Planes, trains and cars...Anna N.2007/07/01 06:28 PM
        Planes, trains and cars...David W. Hess2007/07/01 07:40 PM
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