Coherency: Forwarding and Owned

Article: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect
By: David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com), August 29, 2007 11:08 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
nick (no@mail.com) on 8/29/07 wrote:
---------------------------
>While on the topic of coherency, I'm not familiar with
>why coherency must be 3-hop (or this speculative 2-hop).

So 2-hop protocols aren't inherently speculative. For instance, Intel's current MESI protocol could be considered a trivial form of 2 hop protocol and it isn't speculative.

CSI's protocol is a speculative 2-hop protocol simply because it lowers access latency.

>Naively, I would have thought that when the home node
>initially gets the snoop request, they can arbitrate
>right then, and control the requestor by delaying the
>reply if need be.

I don't think I'm following your question. Could you try and restate or clarify?

Under a 2 hop protocol, the home node really doesn't do much - it's largely there as an observer in case something goes wrong. That's really the whole idea, removing the home node from the critical path.

The home node doesn't really know anything in AMD's 3 hop protocol (although it's very straight forward to extend AMD's 3 hop protocol to include a directory on the home node, which fixes that problem).

Moreover, in AMD's protocol, the requesting CPU has to get ALL snoop responses, plus the cache line from memory before it can proceed.

>I guess it could be related to a deadlock or forward
>progress issue. Can you explain quickly, or point to some
>reading material?

I'd be happy to elaborate to the extent that I can, but I'm not sure I totally understood your question.

David
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New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/28 01:16 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/08/28 05:02 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectRichard Cownie2007/08/28 10:28 AM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/08/31 11:44 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectRichard Cownie2007/08/31 08:53 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/09/01 02:21 AM
          Adding layers can simplify designPaul A. Clayton2007/09/01 07:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/02 02:25 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/14 12:47 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/14 08:47 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectPaul2007/08/28 11:04 AM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/28 12:43 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJoe Chang2007/08/28 06:17 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJoe Chang2007/08/29 04:27 PM
  Thanks for the workWouter Tinus2007/08/28 12:33 PM
    Thanks for the workmac2007/08/29 12:44 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectHerbert Hum2007/08/28 01:22 PM
    ThanksDavid Kanter2007/08/28 04:13 PM
  Many thanks, very, very interesting! (NT)Cameron Jack2007/08/29 01:51 AM
  very nice article + memory ctrl integrationMarcin Niewiadomski2007/08/29 11:46 AM
    very nice article + memory ctrl integrationDavid Kanter2007/09/14 08:50 PM
      very nice article + memory ctrl integrationMarcin Niewiadomski2007/09/16 08:48 PM
  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/29 02:11 PM
    Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/29 06:29 PM
      Coherency: Forwarding and Ownednick2007/08/29 07:03 PM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/29 11:08 PM
      Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedMichael S2007/08/30 01:17 AM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 07:31 AM
      Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/30 11:46 AM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 01:46 PM
          Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/30 07:03 PM
            Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/09/14 08:44 PM
              Node Interleaveunknown2007/09/15 03:14 AM
                Node InterleaveDavid Kanter2007/09/15 07:50 AM
                  Node InterleaveHoward Chu2007/09/16 12:14 PM
              Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/09/16 12:50 PM
                Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/09/16 04:34 PM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedEduardoS2007/09/16 04:52 PM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedJonathan Kang2007/09/17 05:16 AM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedMatthias2007/09/17 06:59 AM
                    Coherency: Forwarding and Owned - additionMatthias2007/09/17 07:01 AM
                Coherency: Forwarding and Ownedanonymous2007/09/17 09:15 AM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/09/17 12:44 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/30 03:16 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 01:11 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/31 03:13 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 03:24 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/31 05:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 06:53 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/31 05:41 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 06:36 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/31 08:36 AM
  Thanks and excellent work!Jack A.2007/08/30 07:41 PM
  Lamport's TLAKonrad Schwarz2007/09/02 01:57 AM
    Lamport's TLADavid Kanter2007/09/02 07:55 PM
    Lamport's TLABrannon2007/09/03 07:12 AM
      Lamport's TLAKonrad Schwarz2007/09/18 10:21 AM
        Lamport's TLABrannon2007/09/18 01:58 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJosé Javier Zarate2007/09/09 04:01 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/16 05:42 PM
    Remote prefetchDavid Kanter2007/09/17 07:51 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJigal2007/09/22 02:39 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/22 04:35 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect8B/10B Latency2007/09/22 06:16 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectanon2007/09/22 08:05 PM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/22 08:50 PM
            Clocking in CSIDavid Kanter2007/09/23 08:46 AM
              Hypertransport 3 AC CouplingDavid W. Hess2007/09/23 09:32 AM
                Hypertransport 3 AC Couplinganon2007/09/23 09:53 AM
                  Clocking lanesDavid Kanter2007/09/23 10:51 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/22 08:34 PM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/22 09:10 PM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 07:15 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/23 01:06 AM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/23 03:41 AM
            Serialization delayDavid Kanter2007/09/23 08:57 AM
              Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/23 11:20 AM
                Serialization delayDavid Kanter2007/09/23 12:43 PM
                  Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/24 12:40 AM
                    Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/24 04:28 AM
                    Serialization delayAaron Spink2007/09/24 12:19 PM
                      Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/25 03:38 AM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:10 AM
                          Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/26 12:22 AM
                        Serialization delayAaron Spink2007/09/25 12:13 PM
                          Thank you (NT)Michael S2007/09/25 12:53 PM
                Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/25 07:26 AM
                  Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/25 01:57 PM
                    Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/26 05:24 AM
                      Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/26 06:39 AM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/26 09:56 AM
                          Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/27 02:21 AM
                            Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/27 04:36 AM
                              Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/27 05:31 PM
                      Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/26 01:26 PM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/27 07:16 AM
                          Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/27 12:20 PM
                            Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/28 04:38 AM
                              Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/28 01:00 PM
                                Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/10/01 07:07 AM
                                  Cache coherent latencyDavid Kanter2007/10/01 07:20 AM
                                    Cache coherent latencyblaine2007/10/01 10:36 AM
                                      Critical word first on coherent interconnectsDavid Kanter2007/10/01 11:10 AM
                                        Does ccHT do critical word first?blaine2007/10/02 07:10 AM
                                    Cache coherent latencyJonathan Kang2007/10/01 12:34 PM
                                      Cache coherent latencyDavid Kanter2007/10/01 01:13 PM
                      Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/28 04:32 AM
                        Serialization delayanonymous2007/09/28 10:25 AM
                          Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/29 09:06 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 07:05 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectjigal2007/09/23 12:37 PM
        CSI, PCI and HTDavid Kanter2007/09/23 12:46 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 07:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectjigal2007/09/25 02:16 PM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/26 03:14 AM
              New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectAnonymous2007/09/26 09:41 AM
                New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/26 09:59 AM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/26 05:48 AM
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