Coherency: Forwarding and Owned

Article: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect
By: David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com), August 30, 2007 8:31 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen@yahoo.com) on 8/30/07 wrote:
---------------------------
>David Kanter (dkanter@realworldtech.com) on 8/29/07 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>Peter Gerdes (truepath@infiniteinjury.org) on 8/29/07 wrote:
>>---------------------------
>>>Thanks for the great article. I've been looking for this >sort of info about CSI for awhile.
>>>
>>>So I'm a bit unclear about how intel's M state compares >with the O state from AMD.
>>
>>>The difference is supposedly that when a copy of a cache >line in state M is requested
>>>the cache line has to be written to memory but what does >this really mean when
>>you have integrated memory >controllers?
>>
>>So that's not entirely true. The M state cache line can be sent from processor
>>to processor without any memory write back. For example, say we have MPU0 and MPU1,
>>with a cache line in the M state in MPU0. If MPU1 requests the cache line with
>>a write hint, then MPU0 just sends the cache line without a write back, and it ends up in MPU1's cache in the M state.
>>
>>The only issue is when you want two or more processors to be able to read the modified
>>line, then you need to write back for Intel's protocol.
>>
>>>If a processor has a modified cache line for memory it is >controlling isn't this
>>>effectively equivalent to being in the O state?
>>
>>No - the O state implies that someone else in the system is sharing the cache line and has it in the S state.
>>
>>>Presumably that processor is answering
>>>all requests about the memory it controls and it would be >silly for it to physically
>>>interrogate the memory when it has the current memory state >on hand.
>>
>>>Now maybe
>>>there is something I'm missing but it seems the primary difference between having
>>>an O state and not is whether a modified cache line can be stored on any processor
>>>or is only held on the processor owning that address.
>>
>>I think you misunderstood how the O state works. The O state has little to do
>>with the memory owning the cache line. Here's a good example:
>>
>>CPU0...3
>>Cache line is owned by CPU0
>>
>>Tx1: CPU1 requests line with write hint
>Are you sure that ccHT implements write hint?

No. I don't know the commands for ccHT, and its not a particularly open or well documented protocol.

>>Tx2: CPU0 sends line in E state to CPU1
>>Tx3: CPU1 writes to line, switches to M state
>
>Seem like at this point the system state is Illegal. M at >CPU1 is not compatible with E at CPU0.
>IMO, it should be:
>Tx2: CPU0 sends line to CPU1 and [upon ACK, if implemented] >switches to I state

Yes, that's right. I sort of was implicitly assuming that CPU0 would evict the line once it had been transferred - obviously the E state means the cache line is cached in a unique place.

DK
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New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/28 02:16 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/08/28 06:02 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectRichard Cownie2007/08/28 11:28 AM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/08/31 12:44 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectRichard Cownie2007/08/31 09:53 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/09/01 03:21 AM
          Adding layers can simplify designPaul A. Clayton2007/09/01 08:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/02 03:25 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/14 01:47 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/14 09:47 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectPaul2007/08/28 12:04 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/28 01:43 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJoe Chang2007/08/28 07:17 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJoe Chang2007/08/29 05:27 PM
  Thanks for the workWouter Tinus2007/08/28 01:33 PM
    Thanks for the workmac2007/08/29 01:44 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectHerbert Hum2007/08/28 02:22 PM
    ThanksDavid Kanter2007/08/28 05:13 PM
  Many thanks, very, very interesting! (NT)Cameron Jack2007/08/29 02:51 AM
  very nice article + memory ctrl integrationMarcin Niewiadomski2007/08/29 12:46 PM
    very nice article + memory ctrl integrationDavid Kanter2007/09/14 09:50 PM
      very nice article + memory ctrl integrationMarcin Niewiadomski2007/09/16 09:48 PM
  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/29 03:11 PM
    Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/29 07:29 PM
      Coherency: Forwarding and Ownednick2007/08/29 08:03 PM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 12:08 AM
      Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedMichael S2007/08/30 02:17 AM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 08:31 AM
      Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/30 12:46 PM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 02:46 PM
          Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/30 08:03 PM
            Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/09/14 09:44 PM
              Node Interleaveunknown2007/09/15 04:14 AM
                Node InterleaveDavid Kanter2007/09/15 08:50 AM
                  Node InterleaveHoward Chu2007/09/16 01:14 PM
              Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/09/16 01:50 PM
                Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/09/16 05:34 PM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedEduardoS2007/09/16 05:52 PM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedJonathan Kang2007/09/17 06:16 AM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedMatthias2007/09/17 07:59 AM
                    Coherency: Forwarding and Owned - additionMatthias2007/09/17 08:01 AM
                Coherency: Forwarding and Ownedanonymous2007/09/17 10:15 AM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/09/17 01:44 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/30 04:16 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 02:11 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/31 04:13 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 04:24 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/31 06:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 07:53 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/31 06:41 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 07:36 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/31 09:36 AM
  Thanks and excellent work!Jack A.2007/08/30 08:41 PM
  Lamport's TLAKonrad Schwarz2007/09/02 02:57 AM
    Lamport's TLADavid Kanter2007/09/02 08:55 PM
    Lamport's TLABrannon2007/09/03 08:12 AM
      Lamport's TLAKonrad Schwarz2007/09/18 11:21 AM
        Lamport's TLABrannon2007/09/18 02:58 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJosé Javier Zarate2007/09/09 05:01 PM
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  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJigal2007/09/22 03:39 PM
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      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect8B/10B Latency2007/09/22 07:16 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectanon2007/09/22 09:05 PM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/22 09:50 PM
            Clocking in CSIDavid Kanter2007/09/23 09:46 AM
              Hypertransport 3 AC CouplingDavid W. Hess2007/09/23 10:32 AM
                Hypertransport 3 AC Couplinganon2007/09/23 10:53 AM
                  Clocking lanesDavid Kanter2007/09/23 11:51 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/22 09:34 PM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/22 10:10 PM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:15 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/23 02:06 AM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/23 04:41 AM
            Serialization delayDavid Kanter2007/09/23 09:57 AM
              Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/23 12:20 PM
                Serialization delayDavid Kanter2007/09/23 01:43 PM
                  Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/24 01:40 AM
                    Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/24 05:28 AM
                    Serialization delayAaron Spink2007/09/24 01:19 PM
                      Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/25 04:38 AM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/25 09:10 AM
                          Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/26 01:22 AM
                        Serialization delayAaron Spink2007/09/25 01:13 PM
                          Thank you (NT)Michael S2007/09/25 01:53 PM
                Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:26 AM
                  Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/25 02:57 PM
                    Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/26 06:24 AM
                      Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/26 07:39 AM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/26 10:56 AM
                          Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/27 03:21 AM
                            Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/27 05:36 AM
                              Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/27 06:31 PM
                      Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/26 02:26 PM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/27 08:16 AM
                          Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/27 01:20 PM
                            Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/28 05:38 AM
                              Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/28 02:00 PM
                                Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/10/01 08:07 AM
                                  Cache coherent latencyDavid Kanter2007/10/01 08:20 AM
                                    Cache coherent latencyblaine2007/10/01 11:36 AM
                                      Critical word first on coherent interconnectsDavid Kanter2007/10/01 12:10 PM
                                        Does ccHT do critical word first?blaine2007/10/02 08:10 AM
                                    Cache coherent latencyJonathan Kang2007/10/01 01:34 PM
                                      Cache coherent latencyDavid Kanter2007/10/01 02:13 PM
                      Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/28 05:32 AM
                        Serialization delayanonymous2007/09/28 11:25 AM
                          Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/29 10:06 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:05 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectjigal2007/09/23 01:37 PM
        CSI, PCI and HTDavid Kanter2007/09/23 01:46 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectjigal2007/09/25 03:16 PM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/26 04:14 AM
              New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectAnonymous2007/09/26 10:41 AM
                New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/26 10:59 AM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/26 06:48 AM
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