New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect

Article: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect
By: jigal (jigal2.delete@this.gmail.com), September 23, 2007 1:37 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Thanx for the reply.

Pretty much overwhelmed by the the level of technical details - since I am not a vlsi guy, but merely a s/w guy.
The reason I am asking, is that, after all, Intel invested
considerable effort in adding the AS layer on top of the
PCI-E, which seems to turn it to a full networking layer,
which CSI also seems to add.
(although you could argue that "Intel" in this sense is a
bunch of engineers toying with their own standard...)

This is in contrast to AMD which has a consistent on board
p2p link - the HT link, which seems to be PCI friendly,
and was invented when PCI-E wasn't relevant, I guess.
I remember reading an pdf on their website trying to
differentiate HT from PCI as on intra board links vs.
inter-board links, or even inter-chassis, etc...

Is the HT used for coherency protocols between AMD asics?
And regardless, now that we have a new guy in town,
what is the future of PCI-E, if they're not going to
add coherency protocols on top of it?

I guess on the upside, it would provide plenty of work
to engineers to develop and sell hubs for CSI/PCI-E/HT :-)

Regards and thanx,
Jigal.


David Kanter (dkanter@realworldtech.com) on 9/22/07 wrote:
---------------------------
>Jigal (jigal2@gmail.com) on 9/22/07 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>Hi there,
>>
>>Being a newbie I throw myself at the mercy of the forum.
>
>Welcome - I think you'll find we're a pretty merciful bunch.
>
>>Small question - how come they didn't leverage the PCI >Express and needed a new
>>bus (excuse me, p2p interconnect) altogether?
>
>PCI Express isn't coherent, it's also fairly high latency since it uses 8B/10B clock encoding.
>
>>On the protocol side, I imagine it is rather adequate.
>
>It's not coherent, so it really isn't suitable.
>
>>And if pcix16 is good enough for display card, shouldn't >it, or its senior brother,
>>pcix32 be good enough, while leveraging existing h/w?
>
>CSI runs at 6.4GT/s and is 20 bits wide. PCI-E runs at 2.5GT/s and is 16 or 32
>bits wide. PCI-E 2.0 runs at 5GT/s so might be fast enough at 32 bits wide, except
>its not coherent and it's high latency because the clock is encoded in the data stream.
>
>DK
>
>
>>David Kanter (dkanter@realworldtech.com) on 8/28/07 wrote:
>>---------------------------
>>>Dear RWT Readers,
>>>
>>>I have waited a rather long time to put this article online (since February when
>>>I first started researching). As many of you know, Intel is in the midst of redesigning
>>>their entire system architecture. The last time something of this magnitude happened
>>>was when the split transaction P6 bus debuted in 1995 - a bus that lasted for roughly a decade.
>>>
>>>Next year, the Common System Interface will ship in two products (Nehalem and Tukwila),
>>>ushering in a new system architecture from Intel.
>>>
>>>I have put up an extremely in-depth report that is the work of roughly 5 months
>>>of research, studying Intel's patent disclosures. In this article, I describe CSI
>>>is exquisite detail, including the physical layer, link layer, coherency protocol
>>>and I provide some speculation as to how CSI will be used in future products.
>>>
>>>http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT082807020032&p=1
>>>
>>>I hope you all enjoy the read. I'd also like to thank everyone who helped with
>>>this article. I relied on the technical expertise of quite a few friends, and
>>>without their help this article wouldn't be nearly as compete or understandable.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>David Kanter
>>
>
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TopicPosted ByDate
New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/28 02:16 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/08/28 06:02 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectRichard Cownie2007/08/28 11:28 AM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/08/31 12:44 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectRichard Cownie2007/08/31 09:53 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectVincent Diepeveen2007/09/01 03:21 AM
          Adding layers can simplify designPaul A. Clayton2007/09/01 08:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/02 03:25 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/14 01:47 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/14 09:47 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectPaul2007/08/28 12:04 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/28 01:43 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJoe Chang2007/08/28 07:17 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJoe Chang2007/08/29 05:27 PM
  Thanks for the workWouter Tinus2007/08/28 01:33 PM
    Thanks for the workmac2007/08/29 01:44 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectHerbert Hum2007/08/28 02:22 PM
    ThanksDavid Kanter2007/08/28 05:13 PM
  Many thanks, very, very interesting! (NT)Cameron Jack2007/08/29 02:51 AM
  very nice article + memory ctrl integrationMarcin Niewiadomski2007/08/29 12:46 PM
    very nice article + memory ctrl integrationDavid Kanter2007/09/14 09:50 PM
      very nice article + memory ctrl integrationMarcin Niewiadomski2007/09/16 09:48 PM
  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/29 03:11 PM
    Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/29 07:29 PM
      Coherency: Forwarding and Ownednick2007/08/29 08:03 PM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 12:08 AM
      Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedMichael S2007/08/30 02:17 AM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 08:31 AM
      Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/30 12:46 PM
        Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/08/30 02:46 PM
          Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/08/30 08:03 PM
            Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/09/14 09:44 PM
              Node Interleaveunknown2007/09/15 04:14 AM
                Node InterleaveDavid Kanter2007/09/15 08:50 AM
                  Node InterleaveHoward Chu2007/09/16 01:14 PM
              Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/09/16 01:50 PM
                Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedDavid Kanter2007/09/16 05:34 PM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedEduardoS2007/09/16 05:52 PM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedJonathan Kang2007/09/17 06:16 AM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedMatthias2007/09/17 07:59 AM
                    Coherency: Forwarding and Owned - additionMatthias2007/09/17 08:01 AM
                Coherency: Forwarding and Ownedanonymous2007/09/17 10:15 AM
                  Coherency: Forwarding and OwnedPeter Gerdes2007/09/17 01:44 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/30 04:16 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 02:11 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/31 04:13 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 04:24 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/31 06:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 07:53 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/08/31 06:41 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/08/31 07:36 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMr. Camel2007/08/31 09:36 AM
  Thanks and excellent work!Jack A.2007/08/30 08:41 PM
  Lamport's TLAKonrad Schwarz2007/09/02 02:57 AM
    Lamport's TLADavid Kanter2007/09/02 08:55 PM
    Lamport's TLABrannon2007/09/03 08:12 AM
      Lamport's TLAKonrad Schwarz2007/09/18 11:21 AM
        Lamport's TLABrannon2007/09/18 02:58 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJosé Javier Zarate2007/09/09 05:01 PM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/16 06:42 PM
    Remote prefetchDavid Kanter2007/09/17 08:51 AM
  New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJigal2007/09/22 03:39 PM
    New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/22 05:35 PM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect8B/10B Latency2007/09/22 07:16 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectanon2007/09/22 09:05 PM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/22 09:50 PM
            Clocking in CSIDavid Kanter2007/09/23 09:46 AM
              Hypertransport 3 AC CouplingDavid W. Hess2007/09/23 10:32 AM
                Hypertransport 3 AC Couplinganon2007/09/23 10:53 AM
                  Clocking lanesDavid Kanter2007/09/23 11:51 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid Kanter2007/09/22 09:34 PM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/22 10:10 PM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:15 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/23 02:06 AM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectDavid W. Hess2007/09/23 04:41 AM
            Serialization delayDavid Kanter2007/09/23 09:57 AM
              Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/23 12:20 PM
                Serialization delayDavid Kanter2007/09/23 01:43 PM
                  Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/24 01:40 AM
                    Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/24 05:28 AM
                    Serialization delayAaron Spink2007/09/24 01:19 PM
                      Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/25 04:38 AM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/25 09:10 AM
                          Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/26 01:22 AM
                        Serialization delayAaron Spink2007/09/25 01:13 PM
                          Thank you (NT)Michael S2007/09/25 01:53 PM
                Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:26 AM
                  Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/25 02:57 PM
                    Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/26 06:24 AM
                      Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/26 07:39 AM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/26 10:56 AM
                          Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/27 03:21 AM
                            Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/27 05:36 AM
                              Serialization delayDavid W. Hess2007/09/27 06:31 PM
                      Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/26 02:26 PM
                        Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/27 08:16 AM
                          Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/27 01:20 PM
                            Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/09/28 05:38 AM
                              Serialization delayrwessel2007/09/28 02:00 PM
                                Serialization delayJonathan Kang2007/10/01 08:07 AM
                                  Cache coherent latencyDavid Kanter2007/10/01 08:20 AM
                                    Cache coherent latencyblaine2007/10/01 11:36 AM
                                      Critical word first on coherent interconnectsDavid Kanter2007/10/01 12:10 PM
                                        Does ccHT do critical word first?blaine2007/10/02 08:10 AM
                                    Cache coherent latencyJonathan Kang2007/10/01 01:34 PM
                                      Cache coherent latencyDavid Kanter2007/10/01 02:13 PM
                      Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/28 05:32 AM
                        Serialization delayanonymous2007/09/28 11:25 AM
                          Serialization delayMichael S2007/09/29 10:06 AM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:05 AM
      New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectjigal2007/09/23 01:37 PM
        CSI, PCI and HTDavid Kanter2007/09/23 01:46 PM
        New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/25 08:39 AM
          New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnectjigal2007/09/25 03:16 PM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectMichael S2007/09/26 04:14 AM
              New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectAnonymous2007/09/26 10:41 AM
                New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/26 10:59 AM
            New article - The Common System Interface: Intel's Future InterconnectJonathan Kang2007/09/26 06:48 AM
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