Gabriele Svelto (gabriele.svelto@gmail.com) on 3/10/08 wrote:
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>Foo_ (foo@nomail.com) on 3/9/08 wrote:
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>>It's not just syntax, it's semantics. Compare the lame std::string type with Python's
>>str and unicode types, for example. Compare the garbage collector with the burden
>>of managing memory by hand. Compare the standard library. Compare the fact that
>>everything is an object (including functions, methods...) with C++'s typing mess. etc.
>>
>>Unless you only program Mandelbrot-calculation loops it is quite clear how Python is more concise than C++.
>>
>>For a start, C++'s crippled standard library should be a big warning against using
>>that language for general-purpose tasks, unless you are masochistic.
>
>Actually that stuff (the crippled library & typing mess) are considered important
>features by experienced C++ programs but tend to confuse coders coming from other
>languages. My personal opinion on the topic is that C++ is a mess but then I am
>*not* an experienced C++ program so I'm kind of biased against it. Besides for me
>it's either low-level where I stick to C or pure-OO à la Smalltalk, multi paradigm is not my thing.
>
>
>What I find funny about C++ is that while people claim that it is a multi paradigm
>language there seems to be "one true way" of writing C++ code and using only part
>of its feature set (C-with-classes for example) is frowned upon.
>
>Gabriele

C-with-classes is fine and even useful. A combination of low-level control over data structures and of ability "to break the rules" when needed with OOP language elements is rather unique. Can't see of too many languages that provide the same combo. Actually, except Ada-95 can't think of any such language. There are cases in which I actually stick to C-with-classes subset or more commonly C-with-classes + STL.

But let's face it - if you don't need that low-level access then for pure OOP style C++ is nothing special. Even Java can beat it in that regard. What makes C++ interesting and higher level languages than Java or Object Pascal is exactly that buzzword multi paradigm. Combination of procedural, OOP and generic programming. I personally think of the second part as mostly syntactic sugar and the least interesting of the three but I am willing to accept that it also has its place and sometimes helps to glue the other two part together. However in my own practice I'd happily trade all these "virtual" stuff for sane syntax for delegation i.e. pointers to member functions that are not treated as 3rd class citizen.