The File Abstraction

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), January 26, 2009 3:29 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Dean Kent (dkent@realworldtech.com) on 1/26/09 wrote:
>
>So, I think you can say people learned from their mistakes
> - but part of it is that technology has marched forward
>much faster than those original architects likely ever
>considered possible.

Well, it's not VMS itself that is scary, but the reason I
brought up VMS was to point out that this whole "complex
files" model has been done (and not just by VMS, btw),
and it's been found to be a failure.

And the thing is, people are apparently not learning from
the mistake. There are still people who want to put the
database back into the filesystem. Ugh.

So I'm not dragging VMS out as an example of "see, those
idiots did it already". Back then, you had reasons for it,
although I suspect the biggest reason was simply not knowing
any better rather than the ones you mentioned.

Today? Not so much. Filesystems with complex semantics are
simply not a good idea. You want your data to move around,
not get stuck in the sticky treacle of some odd specialized
filesystem.

But despite that, filesystem people tend to want to feel
more important (or whatever it is that drives them to
invent new interfaces), and database people seem to want to
sometimes get rid of their problems (as if they just go
away if you move them to the OS), and the two always seem
to be eyeing each other with a glint of lust in their eyes.

I suspect it's because they both get intimate with the
disk, and they think that some kind of unholy threesome
would make it all even more fun.

Blearrgh. I need some mental eye-bleach after that
simile.

Linus
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TopicPosted ByDate
First Dunnington benchmark resultsMichael S2008/08/19 09:54 AM
  First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/19 12:42 PM
    First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Apink2008/08/19 04:49 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/19 05:28 PM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 08:49 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 02:10 PM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 05:42 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 06:12 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 08:45 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink2008/08/21 12:12 PM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 02:15 PM
    First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 01:59 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsAnders Jensen2008/08/20 02:26 AM
        +SSDAnders Jensen2008/08/20 02:30 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 10:04 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsslacker2008/08/20 11:35 AM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsDoug Siebert2008/08/20 06:54 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 07:58 PM
                SLC vs. MLCDavid Kanter2008/08/21 12:16 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/08/21 05:25 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCRichard Cownie2008/08/21 05:32 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/21 07:39 AM
                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/08/21 08:07 AM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/21 08:52 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/08/21 09:35 AM
                            OLTP appliance = mainframe? (NT)Potatoswatter2008/08/21 10:44 AM
                              OLTP appliance = HP NonStop?Michael S2008/08/21 11:03 AM
                                OLTP applianceJoe Chang2008/08/21 02:33 PM
                                  OLTP appliancePotatoswatter2008/08/21 02:59 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 12:29 PM
                          SLC vs. MLCDan Downs2008/08/21 10:33 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCrwessel2008/08/21 11:45 AM
                              SLC vs. MLCDan Downs2008/08/22 07:21 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 12:34 PM
                          SLC vs. MLC vs DRAMpgerassi2008/08/21 11:24 AM
                            SLC vs. MLC vs DRAMDavid Kanter2008/08/22 12:31 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCGroo2008/08/23 11:52 AM
                      SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert2008/08/21 05:14 PM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/22 07:05 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert2008/08/22 01:27 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/08/22 05:26 PM
                            SSD Controller differentiationDavid Kanter2008/08/22 08:35 PM
                              SSD Controller differentiationDoug Siebert2008/08/22 09:34 PM
                                SSD Controller differentiation (supercaps, cost...)anon2008/08/23 09:18 AM
                                  SSD Controller differentiation (supercaps, cost...)Doug Siebert2008/08/23 09:40 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/23 09:50 AM
                              SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/08 11:03 AM
                                SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/08 12:51 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/08 08:04 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/08 09:29 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/08 11:12 PM
                                        RAM vs SSD?Jouni Osmala2008/09/09 12:06 AM
                                          RAM vs SSD?Max2008/09/12 11:51 AM
                                            RAM vs SSD?EduardoS2008/09/12 03:27 PM
                                            Disk cache snapshottingMax2008/09/13 07:34 AM
                                              Disk cache snapshottingHoward Chu2008/09/14 08:58 PM
                                                Disk cache snapshottingMax2008/09/15 11:50 AM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/09 06:43 AM
                                          SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/09 08:42 AM
                                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/09 09:39 AM
                                              SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/09 11:29 PM
                                                SLC vs. MLCanon2008/09/10 01:51 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 02:09 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/10 03:48 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 04:52 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/10 05:28 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/09/10 05:21 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 08:17 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCanon2008/09/10 05:29 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 08:23 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/09/10 09:45 AM
                                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/10 06:25 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 08:54 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/10 09:31 AM
                                                      Physical vs effective write latencyMax2008/09/11 06:35 AM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 08:06 AM
                                                          Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 08:48 AM
                                                            Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 10:39 AM
                                                              Physical vs effective write latencyMark Roulo2008/09/11 11:18 AM
                                                                Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 04:59 PM
                                                                  Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 06:16 PM
                                                                    Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 09:28 PM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyMS2009/02/03 02:06 PM
                                                  SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/11 11:39 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/11 12:17 PM
                                                      SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/11 04:25 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 04:47 PM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyrwessel2008/09/11 05:01 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/11 11:00 PM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/12 07:52 PM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/13 09:06 AM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyUngo2008/09/15 11:18 AM
                                                              To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveDavid Kanter2008/09/22 12:12 AM
                                                                To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveHoward Chu2008/09/22 03:02 AM
                                                                  To SSD or not? Real data..Linus Torvalds2008/09/22 06:33 AM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Ungo2008/09/22 11:27 AM
                                                                      4K sectorsWes Felter2008/09/22 05:03 PM
                                                                        4K sectorsDaniel2008/09/22 09:31 PM
                                                                      Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDoug Siebert2008/09/22 08:38 PM
                                                                        Reasons for >512 byte sectorsrwessel2008/09/22 09:09 PM
                                                                          Reasons for >512 byte sectorsHoward Chu2008/09/23 01:50 AM
                                                                        Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel2008/09/22 09:40 PM
                                                                          Reasons for >512 byte sectorsrwessel2008/09/23 08:11 AM
                                                                            Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel2008/09/23 11:10 AM
                                                                      HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart2008/09/23 04:32 AM
                                                                        HDD long sector size availabilityrwessel2008/09/23 08:19 AM
                                                                          HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart2008/09/23 01:17 PM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Jouni Osmala2008/09/22 10:16 PM
                                                                  To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveWes Felter2008/09/22 10:25 AM
                                                                How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Rob Thorpe2008/09/22 01:01 PM
                                                                  How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Matt Craighead2008/09/23 05:59 PM
                                                                    How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Matt Sayler2008/09/24 03:17 AM
                                                            ATA/SCSIS, Write Flushes and Asych FilesystemsTruePath2009/01/25 03:44 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyMichael S2008/09/12 03:58 AM
                                                        overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/12 03:59 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read David W. Hess2008/09/12 08:56 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read Anonymous2008/09/12 07:45 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Jouni Osmala2008/09/12 10:56 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/13 10:29 AM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/13 11:09 AM
                                                              overlapped erase and read Linus Torvalds2008/09/13 01:05 PM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 04:31 PM
                                SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/09/08 01:07 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/08 01:30 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/09/08 03:01 PM
                                      SSD and RAIDJoe Chang2008/09/08 06:42 PM
                                        SSD and RAIDDoug Siebert2008/09/08 08:46 PM
                                          SSD and RAIDAaron Spink2008/09/09 03:27 PM
                                            SSD and RAIDGroo2008/09/10 12:02 PM
                              SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 09:22 AM
                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 01:04 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 02:24 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 03:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCanonymous2009/01/06 04:17 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 04:58 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 11:35 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 04:45 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 05:09 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 06:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 11:26 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCanon2009/01/06 07:23 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 11:52 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCanon2009/01/07 01:34 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCIntelUser20002009/01/07 06:43 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/07 09:28 AM
                                      drop data filesystem semanticDoug Siebert2009/01/09 11:21 AM
                                      FTL and FSiz2009/01/09 06:49 PM
                                        FTL and FSLinus Torvalds2009/01/09 08:53 PM
                                          FTL and FSiz2009/01/10 01:09 AM
                                            FTL and FSMichael S2009/01/10 02:19 PM
                                              compiling large programsiz2009/01/10 04:51 PM
                                                compiling large programsLinus Torvalds2009/01/10 06:58 PM
                                                  compiling large programspeter2009/01/11 04:30 AM
                                                  compiling large programsAndi Kleen2009/01/11 12:03 PM
                                                  The File AbstractionTruePath2009/01/25 05:45 AM
                                                    The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/25 12:49 PM
                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 08:23 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionMichael S2009/01/26 12:39 PM
                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 01:31 PM
                                                            The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/26 02:06 PM
                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 03:29 PM
                                                                The File AbstractionMark Christiansen2009/01/27 08:24 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionMark Christiansen2009/01/27 09:14 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/27 09:15 AM
                                                                    The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/27 10:20 AM
                                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/27 12:16 PM
                                                                        Attributes All The Way DownMark Christiansen2009/01/27 01:17 PM
                                                                        The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/27 04:25 PM
                                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/28 07:17 AM
                                                                            The File Abstraction: API thoughtsCarlie Coats2009/01/28 08:35 AM
                                                                            The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/28 09:09 AM
                                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/28 12:44 PM
                                                                                Programs already 'hide' their metadata in the bytestream, unbeknownst to usersanon2009/01/28 08:28 PM
                                                                                The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/29 09:39 AM
                                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/29 10:08 AM
                                                                                    The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/29 10:49 AM
                                                                                      The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/29 01:58 PM
                                                                                        The File Abstractionrwessel2009/01/29 03:23 PM
                                                                                    Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/29 02:05 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionstubar2009/01/29 03:49 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionLinus Torvalds2009/01/29 04:15 PM
                                                                                        Like Duhanon2009/01/29 06:42 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhanon2009/01/29 08:15 PM
                                                                                            Like Duhanon2009/02/01 06:18 PM
                                                                                              Double Duh.Anonymous2009/02/01 09:58 PM
                                                                                                Double Duh.anon2009/02/02 01:08 AM
                                                                                                  Double Duh.Anonymous2009/02/02 04:11 PM
                                                                                                    Double Duh.anon2009/02/02 06:33 PM
                                                                                              Like DuhDavid Kanter2009/02/01 10:05 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhpeter2009/02/01 10:55 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhanon2009/02/02 12:55 AM
                                                                                                Xattrs, Solar power, regulation and politicsRob Thorpe2009/02/02 03:36 AM
                                                                                                  Terminology seems too fuzzy to mehobold2009/02/02 05:14 AM
                                                                                                    Terminology seems too fuzzy to merwessel2009/02/02 11:33 AM
                                                                                                      good summaryMichael S2009/02/03 01:41 AM
                                                                                                        good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 08:57 AM
                                                                                                          good summaryHoward Chu2009/02/03 09:21 AM
                                                                                                            good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 10:18 AM
                                                                                                              good summaryHoward Chu2009/02/03 11:00 AM
                                                                                                                good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 11:36 AM
                                                                                                          good summaryRagingDragon2009/02/03 09:39 PM
                                                                                                            good summaryrwessel2009/02/03 10:03 PM
                                                                                                              good summaryRagingDragon2009/02/03 10:46 PM
                                                                                                      Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker2009/02/04 04:06 PM
                                                                                                        Terminology seems too fuzzy to meMichael S2009/02/05 12:05 AM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meUngo2009/02/05 12:15 PM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker2009/02/05 01:19 PM
                                                                                                            Terminology seems too fuzzy to meHoward Chu2009/02/05 03:44 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhiz2009/01/30 01:03 AM
                                                                                          EAs (security labels) hosed me badlyanon2009/01/30 08:48 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in ActionRagingDragon2009/01/29 08:31 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous2009/01/29 07:13 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/29 08:38 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/30 10:24 AM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/30 04:50 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionEtienne Lehnart2009/01/29 11:22 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionRob Thorpe2009/01/30 11:39 AM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/30 12:16 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/30 05:03 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/30 10:22 PM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel2009/01/30 11:08 PM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous2009/01/30 11:22 PM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel2009/01/30 11:56 PM
                                                                                                  ScalingDean Kent2009/01/31 08:04 AM
                                                                                                    ScalingRob Thorpe2009/02/02 01:39 AM
                                                                                                      Scalingrwessel2009/02/02 10:41 AM
                                                                                                        ScalingHoward Chu2009/02/02 11:30 AM
                                                                                                          ScalingDean Kent2009/02/02 01:27 PM
                                                                                                            ScalingRob Thorpe2009/02/03 04:08 AM
                                                                                                              ScalingDean Kent2009/02/03 06:38 AM
                                                                                                              Scalingrwessel2009/02/03 01:34 PM
                                                                                                                ScalingRagingDragon2009/02/03 09:46 PM
                                                                                                    in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 10:27 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleHoward Chu2009/02/03 11:03 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 11:17 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon2009/02/03 10:00 PM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleMichael S2009/02/04 05:46 AM
                                                                                                            in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon2009/02/04 08:33 PM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleDean Kent2009/02/03 11:17 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 11:24 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleVincent Diepeveen2009/02/04 09:43 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scalerwessel2009/02/03 01:44 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleanon2009/02/04 01:35 AM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleCarlie Coats2009/02/04 04:24 AM
                                                                                                      Scaling with time vs. scaling from the beginning.mpx2009/02/05 12:57 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionMichael S2009/01/31 09:33 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/31 09:37 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB2009/01/31 07:11 AM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/31 10:43 AM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB2009/01/31 03:37 PM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/02/02 01:42 PM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/02/02 01:44 PM
                                                                    The File AbstractionRob Thorpe2009/01/27 10:20 AM
                                                              The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/26 11:28 PM
                                                                The File AbstractionMichael S2009/01/27 02:00 AM
                                                                The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/27 07:30 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionAndi Kleen2009/01/27 01:05 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCMichel2009/01/12 05:54 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/12 06:38 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/12 11:52 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCUngo2009/01/13 02:04 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCWes Felter2009/01/13 04:42 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCTruePath2009/01/25 04:05 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCUngo2008/08/21 11:54 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 12:20 PM
                  MLC vs. SLCMichael S2008/08/21 07:57 AM
                First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 09:40 AM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink2008/08/21 02:18 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsEtienne Lehnart2008/08/20 03:38 AM
  Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/19 09:10 PM
    Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann2008/08/19 11:28 PM
      Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/20 02:42 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?David Kanter2008/08/21 12:13 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Joe Chang2008/08/21 05:54 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?asdf2008/08/22 12:18 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/22 06:54 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann2008/08/22 08:48 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/24 12:06 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/24 03:19 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/24 08:30 AM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Paul2008/08/24 10:16 AM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/24 11:37 AM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/24 11:53 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/22 09:19 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?aaron spink2008/08/23 01:56 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/23 08:58 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 12:51 PM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 12:55 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Aaron Spink2008/08/23 03:52 PM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous2008/08/23 04:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/23 05:12 PM
                    Off road and topicEduardoS2008/08/23 05:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 05:26 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/23 08:40 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous2008/08/24 12:46 AM
                  Off road and topicDavid W. Hess2008/08/24 02:24 AM
                    Off road and topicAaron Spink2008/08/24 03:14 AM
  Beckton vs. DunningtonMr. Camel2008/08/22 05:30 AM
    Beckton vs. Dunningtonjokerman2008/08/22 11:12 AM
    Beckton vs. DunningtonMr. Camel2009/05/29 09:16 AM
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