Extended Attributes in Action

By: anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com), January 30, 2009 5:50 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
slacker (s@lack.er) on 1/30/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>Howard Chu (hyc@symas.com) on 1/29/09 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>Quite obviously, if you care about the checksum of an MP3 file with embedded ID3
>>tags, you should write an mp3sum program that ignores ID3 tags when it computes its checksum.
>>
>>Duh...
>
>I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not, so I'll respond. Your method works, but
>then you have to write this type of parser for all the filetypes that you may encounted
>(MP3, MP4, TIFF, etc...). There's no generic approach.

The mp3 file with id3 tags is a specific format of file, and as such the obvious and expected result of a checksum is that it includes the id3 tags. If you want to store metadata outside the audio data, using a separate file to store that in works wonderfully. What do you get with xattrs? Not something obvious, that's for sure (what to do if you *want* to checksum metadata as well?). Nor does it change the fact that id3 tags remain in the file data stream.

Point is: of course there is no generic approach. If you want to work with application specific file formats, yes, you need application specific knowledge. If you think this changes because "metadata" is stored in xattrs rather than in individual files or within the bytestream, you're deluded. Incredibly trivial and basic examples may actually be possible to be managed from the command line with basic xattr editors (of course it would be also possible and actually much easier if the metadata were stored in different files), but that's because you haven't really thought the idea through.

You want _all_ "metadata" for all "data" to be stored in xattrs? What does this even mean really? Is not the metadata also data in a sense? It may also have metadata associated with it; what to do then? You think everything becomes clear if these get separated out into nice little side-streams? What does a wordprocessor format look like, then? Data is text, and metadata is formatting of that text? Oh but formatting is an integral data of a wordprocessor document too. It also has metadata associated? Document history, that's metadata, a set of changes made to the data and metadata of the document. But it also has metadata (date of change, author, etc). Yep, that's going to be trivial to edit all that using command line tools and without any domain specific knowledge.

Anybody who tells you to "put 'metadata' in extended attributes" is basically an imbecile. Yes it *can* be done in some cases, but the truth is that they probably reached their brain power limit in coming up with "put mp3 song title in xattrs" where it sounds like it works OK (but even then doesn't really actually solve anything).

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TopicPosted ByDate
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        First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 09:49 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 03:10 PM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 06:42 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 07:12 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 09:45 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink2008/08/21 01:12 PM
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    First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 02:59 AM
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        +SSDAnders Jensen2008/08/20 03:30 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 11:04 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsslacker2008/08/20 12:35 PM
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              First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 08:58 PM
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                  SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/08/21 06:25 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCRichard Cownie2008/08/21 06:32 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/21 08:39 AM
                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/08/21 09:07 AM
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                          SLC vs. MLCDan Downs2008/08/21 11:33 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCrwessel2008/08/21 12:45 PM
                              SLC vs. MLCDan Downs2008/08/22 08:21 AM
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                      SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert2008/08/21 06:14 PM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/22 08:05 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert2008/08/22 02:27 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/08/22 06:26 PM
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                              SSD Controller differentiationDoug Siebert2008/08/22 10:34 PM
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                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/23 10:50 AM
                              SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/08 12:03 PM
                                SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/08 01:51 PM
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                                            RAM vs SSD?EduardoS2008/09/12 04:27 PM
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                                                Disk cache snapshottingMax2008/09/15 12:50 PM
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                                          SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/09 09:42 AM
                                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/09 10:39 AM
                                              SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 12:29 AM
                                                SLC vs. MLCanon2008/09/10 02:51 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 03:09 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/10 04:48 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 05:52 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/10 06:28 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/09/10 06:21 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 09:17 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCanon2008/09/10 06:29 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 09:23 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/09/10 10:45 AM
                                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/10 07:25 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 09:54 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/10 10:31 AM
                                                      Physical vs effective write latencyMax2008/09/11 07:35 AM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 09:06 AM
                                                          Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 09:48 AM
                                                            Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 11:39 AM
                                                              Physical vs effective write latencyMark Roulo2008/09/11 12:18 PM
                                                                Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 05:59 PM
                                                                  Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 07:16 PM
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                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyMS2009/02/03 03:06 PM
                                                  SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/11 12:39 PM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/11 01:17 PM
                                                      SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/11 05:25 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 05:47 PM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyrwessel2008/09/11 06:01 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/12 12:00 AM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/12 08:52 PM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/13 10:06 AM
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                                                                            Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel2008/09/23 12:10 PM
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                                                                        HDD long sector size availabilityrwessel2008/09/23 09:19 AM
                                                                          HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart2008/09/23 02:17 PM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Jouni Osmala2008/09/22 11:16 PM
                                                                  To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveWes Felter2008/09/22 11:25 AM
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                                                        overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/12 04:59 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read David W. Hess2008/09/12 09:56 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read Anonymous2008/09/12 08:45 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Jouni Osmala2008/09/12 11:56 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/13 11:29 AM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/13 12:09 PM
                                                              overlapped erase and read Linus Torvalds2008/09/13 02:05 PM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 05:31 PM
                                SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/09/08 02:07 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/08 02:30 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/09/08 04:01 PM
                                      SSD and RAIDJoe Chang2008/09/08 07:42 PM
                                        SSD and RAIDDoug Siebert2008/09/08 09:46 PM
                                          SSD and RAIDAaron Spink2008/09/09 04:27 PM
                                            SSD and RAIDGroo2008/09/10 01:02 PM
                              SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 10:22 AM
                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 02:04 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 03:24 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 04:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCanonymous2009/01/06 05:17 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 05:58 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/07 12:35 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 05:45 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 06:09 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 07:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/07 12:26 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCanon2009/01/06 08:23 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/07 12:52 AM
                                        SLC vs. MLCanon2009/01/07 02:34 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCIntelUser20002009/01/07 07:43 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/07 10:28 AM
                                      drop data filesystem semanticDoug Siebert2009/01/09 12:21 PM
                                      FTL and FSiz2009/01/09 07:49 PM
                                        FTL and FSLinus Torvalds2009/01/09 09:53 PM
                                          FTL and FSiz2009/01/10 02:09 AM
                                            FTL and FSMichael S2009/01/10 03:19 PM
                                              compiling large programsiz2009/01/10 05:51 PM
                                                compiling large programsLinus Torvalds2009/01/10 07:58 PM
                                                  compiling large programspeter2009/01/11 05:30 AM
                                                  compiling large programsAndi Kleen2009/01/11 01:03 PM
                                                  The File AbstractionTruePath2009/01/25 06:45 AM
                                                    The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/25 01:49 PM
                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 09:23 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionMichael S2009/01/26 01:39 PM
                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 02:31 PM
                                                            The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/26 03:06 PM
                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 04:29 PM
                                                                The File AbstractionMark Christiansen2009/01/27 09:24 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionMark Christiansen2009/01/27 10:14 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/27 10:15 AM
                                                                    The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/27 11:20 AM
                                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/27 01:16 PM
                                                                        Attributes All The Way DownMark Christiansen2009/01/27 02:17 PM
                                                                        The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/27 05:25 PM
                                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/28 08:17 AM
                                                                            The File Abstraction: API thoughtsCarlie Coats2009/01/28 09:35 AM
                                                                            The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/28 10:09 AM
                                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/28 01:44 PM
                                                                                Programs already 'hide' their metadata in the bytestream, unbeknownst to usersanon2009/01/28 09:28 PM
                                                                                The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/29 10:39 AM
                                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/29 11:08 AM
                                                                                    The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/29 11:49 AM
                                                                                      The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/29 02:58 PM
                                                                                        The File Abstractionrwessel2009/01/29 04:23 PM
                                                                                    Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/29 03:05 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionstubar2009/01/29 04:49 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionLinus Torvalds2009/01/29 05:15 PM
                                                                                        Like Duhanon2009/01/29 07:42 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhanon2009/01/29 09:15 PM
                                                                                            Like Duhanon2009/02/01 07:18 PM
                                                                                              Double Duh.Anonymous2009/02/01 10:58 PM
                                                                                                Double Duh.anon2009/02/02 02:08 AM
                                                                                                  Double Duh.Anonymous2009/02/02 05:11 PM
                                                                                                    Double Duh.anon2009/02/02 07:33 PM
                                                                                              Like DuhDavid Kanter2009/02/01 11:05 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhpeter2009/02/01 11:55 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhanon2009/02/02 01:55 AM
                                                                                                Xattrs, Solar power, regulation and politicsRob Thorpe2009/02/02 04:36 AM
                                                                                                  Terminology seems too fuzzy to mehobold2009/02/02 06:14 AM
                                                                                                    Terminology seems too fuzzy to merwessel2009/02/02 12:33 PM
                                                                                                      good summaryMichael S2009/02/03 02:41 AM
                                                                                                        good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 09:57 AM
                                                                                                          good summaryHoward Chu2009/02/03 10:21 AM
                                                                                                            good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 11:18 AM
                                                                                                              good summaryHoward Chu2009/02/03 12:00 PM
                                                                                                                good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 12:36 PM
                                                                                                          good summaryRagingDragon2009/02/03 10:39 PM
                                                                                                            good summaryrwessel2009/02/03 11:03 PM
                                                                                                              good summaryRagingDragon2009/02/03 11:46 PM
                                                                                                      Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker2009/02/04 05:06 PM
                                                                                                        Terminology seems too fuzzy to meMichael S2009/02/05 01:05 AM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meUngo2009/02/05 01:15 PM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker2009/02/05 02:19 PM
                                                                                                            Terminology seems too fuzzy to meHoward Chu2009/02/05 04:44 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhiz2009/01/30 02:03 AM
                                                                                          EAs (security labels) hosed me badlyanon2009/01/30 09:48 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in ActionRagingDragon2009/01/29 09:31 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous2009/01/29 08:13 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/29 09:38 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/30 11:24 AM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/30 05:50 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionEtienne Lehnart2009/01/30 12:22 AM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionRob Thorpe2009/01/30 12:39 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/30 01:16 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/30 06:03 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/30 11:22 PM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel2009/01/31 12:08 AM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous2009/01/31 12:22 AM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel2009/01/31 12:56 AM
                                                                                                  ScalingDean Kent2009/01/31 09:04 AM
                                                                                                    ScalingRob Thorpe2009/02/02 02:39 AM
                                                                                                      Scalingrwessel2009/02/02 11:41 AM
                                                                                                        ScalingHoward Chu2009/02/02 12:30 PM
                                                                                                          ScalingDean Kent2009/02/02 02:27 PM
                                                                                                            ScalingRob Thorpe2009/02/03 05:08 AM
                                                                                                              ScalingDean Kent2009/02/03 07:38 AM
                                                                                                              Scalingrwessel2009/02/03 02:34 PM
                                                                                                                ScalingRagingDragon2009/02/03 10:46 PM
                                                                                                    in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 11:27 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleHoward Chu2009/02/03 12:03 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 12:17 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon2009/02/03 11:00 PM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleMichael S2009/02/04 06:46 AM
                                                                                                            in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon2009/02/04 09:33 PM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleDean Kent2009/02/03 12:17 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 12:24 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleVincent Diepeveen2009/02/04 10:43 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scalerwessel2009/02/03 02:44 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleanon2009/02/04 02:35 AM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleCarlie Coats2009/02/04 05:24 AM
                                                                                                      Scaling with time vs. scaling from the beginning.mpx2009/02/05 01:57 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionMichael S2009/01/31 10:33 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/31 10:37 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB2009/01/31 08:11 AM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/31 11:43 AM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB2009/01/31 04:37 PM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/02/02 02:42 PM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/02/02 02:44 PM
                                                                    The File AbstractionRob Thorpe2009/01/27 11:20 AM
                                                              The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/27 12:28 AM
                                                                The File AbstractionMichael S2009/01/27 03:00 AM
                                                                The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/27 08:30 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionAndi Kleen2009/01/27 02:05 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCMichel2009/01/12 06:54 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/12 07:38 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/13 12:52 AM
                                      SLC vs. MLCUngo2009/01/13 03:04 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCWes Felter2009/01/13 05:42 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCTruePath2009/01/25 05:05 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCUngo2008/08/21 12:54 PM
                    SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 01:20 PM
                  MLC vs. SLCMichael S2008/08/21 08:57 AM
                First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 10:40 AM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink2008/08/21 03:18 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsEtienne Lehnart2008/08/20 04:38 AM
  Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/19 10:10 PM
    Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann2008/08/20 12:28 AM
      Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/20 03:42 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?David Kanter2008/08/21 01:13 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Joe Chang2008/08/21 06:54 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?asdf2008/08/22 01:18 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/22 07:54 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann2008/08/22 09:48 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/24 01:06 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/24 04:19 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/24 09:30 AM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Paul2008/08/24 11:16 AM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/24 12:37 PM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/25 12:53 AM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/22 10:19 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?aaron spink2008/08/23 02:56 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/23 09:58 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 01:51 PM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 01:55 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Aaron Spink2008/08/23 04:52 PM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous2008/08/23 05:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/23 06:12 PM
                    Off road and topicEduardoS2008/08/23 06:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 06:26 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/23 09:40 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous2008/08/24 01:46 AM
                  Off road and topicDavid W. Hess2008/08/24 03:24 AM
                    Off road and topicAaron Spink2008/08/24 04:14 AM
  Beckton vs. DunningtonMr. Camel2008/08/22 06:30 AM
    Beckton vs. Dunningtonjokerman2008/08/22 12:12 PM
    Beckton vs. DunningtonMr. Camel2009/05/29 10:16 AM
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