SLC vs. MLC

By: Michel (michel.delete@this.lespinasse.org), January 12, 2009 6:54 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Linus Torvalds (torvalds@linux-foundation.org) on 1/6/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>The only sane flash model is one where the hardware itself
>does the block remapping.
>
>And no, this is not about "most filesystems" or about any
>majority voting. It's a simple technical fact.
>
>The simple fact is that exposing the internal flash
>model to any external software is simply insane. You'd
>never suggest that software should know about the exact
>details of RAM DIMM addressing, and know about open
>pages and the size and organization of banks.

So, this was not entirely intuitive to me, but you make a compelling argument that since the kernel can't know as much about the storage medium as the disk controller does, it's best to leave all the low-level optimizations to the storage controller and have a simple backwards compatible interface (i.e. just LBAs and sectors) between the disk and the host controllers.

I'd like to ask, how much SSD knowledge do you think the upper layers of the storage stack should have ? things such as:

* Making sure that the FS aligns data blocks (I'm thinking about the 4k blocks in an ext2 fs) such that no data block goes across an erase region boundary (this will also be important with spinning disks in the future when they do away with 512 byte sectors...)

* Possible FS data placement optimizations to try to have files fit in a single erase block, similar to what's being done with stride/stripe mke2fs options when using RAID

* Maybe having the disk scheduler spend less effort trying to reduce seeks, and more effort trying to reduce the number of erase blocks being written to - for example, when one write request will cause a given erase block to be written to, maybe the disk scheduler could try to find any dirty buffers within that same erase block that have not been scheduled for writing yet, and try to 'eagerly' write them in the hope that they won't be dirtied again ???

* The ext2 optimizations that split inode tables into many small subtables, each close to their data blocks, in order to reduce seeks, seem quite pointless on SSD

My point is, even though spinning disks use a simple LBA/sector type of interface, there is still a lot of knowledge in upper layers about the kinds of latencies that are expected. We've not seen similar upper-layer optimizations for SSD yet, and I wonder if that's coming, or do you think that the SSD controller should try to hide all these aspects as well ???
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TopicPosted ByDate
First Dunnington benchmark resultsMichael S2008/08/19 10:54 AM
  First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/19 01:42 PM
    First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Apink2008/08/19 05:49 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/19 06:28 PM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 09:49 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 03:10 PM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 06:42 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 07:12 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 09:45 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink2008/08/21 01:12 PM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang2008/08/21 03:15 PM
    First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 02:59 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsAnders Jensen2008/08/20 03:26 AM
        +SSDAnders Jensen2008/08/20 03:30 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 11:04 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsslacker2008/08/20 12:35 PM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsDoug Siebert2008/08/20 07:54 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie2008/08/20 08:58 PM
                SLC vs. MLCDavid Kanter2008/08/21 01:16 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/08/21 06:25 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCRichard Cownie2008/08/21 06:32 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/21 08:39 AM
                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/08/21 09:07 AM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/21 09:52 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/08/21 10:35 AM
                            OLTP appliance = mainframe? (NT)Potatoswatter2008/08/21 11:44 AM
                              OLTP appliance = HP NonStop?Michael S2008/08/21 12:03 PM
                                OLTP applianceJoe Chang2008/08/21 03:33 PM
                                  OLTP appliancePotatoswatter2008/08/21 03:59 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 01:29 PM
                          SLC vs. MLCDan Downs2008/08/21 11:33 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCrwessel2008/08/21 12:45 PM
                              SLC vs. MLCDan Downs2008/08/22 08:21 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 01:34 PM
                          SLC vs. MLC vs DRAMpgerassi2008/08/21 12:24 PM
                            SLC vs. MLC vs DRAMDavid Kanter2008/08/22 01:31 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCGroo2008/08/23 12:52 PM
                      SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert2008/08/21 06:14 PM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/22 08:05 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert2008/08/22 02:27 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/08/22 06:26 PM
                            SSD Controller differentiationDavid Kanter2008/08/22 09:35 PM
                              SSD Controller differentiationDoug Siebert2008/08/22 10:34 PM
                                SSD Controller differentiation (supercaps, cost...)anon2008/08/23 10:18 AM
                                  SSD Controller differentiation (supercaps, cost...)Doug Siebert2008/08/23 10:40 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/08/23 10:50 AM
                              SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/08 12:03 PM
                                SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/08 01:51 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/08 09:04 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/08 10:29 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/09 12:12 AM
                                        RAM vs SSD?Jouni Osmala2008/09/09 01:06 AM
                                          RAM vs SSD?Max2008/09/12 12:51 PM
                                            RAM vs SSD?EduardoS2008/09/12 04:27 PM
                                            Disk cache snapshottingMax2008/09/13 08:34 AM
                                              Disk cache snapshottingHoward Chu2008/09/14 09:58 PM
                                                Disk cache snapshottingMax2008/09/15 12:50 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/09 07:43 AM
                                          SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu2008/09/09 09:42 AM
                                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/09 10:39 AM
                                              SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 12:29 AM
                                                SLC vs. MLCanon2008/09/10 02:51 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 03:09 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/10 04:48 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 05:52 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMax2008/09/10 06:28 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/09/10 06:21 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 09:17 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCanon2008/09/10 06:29 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 09:23 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler2008/09/10 10:45 AM
                                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/10 07:25 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S2008/09/10 09:54 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/10 10:31 AM
                                                      Physical vs effective write latencyMax2008/09/11 07:35 AM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 09:06 AM
                                                          Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 09:48 AM
                                                            Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 11:39 AM
                                                              Physical vs effective write latencyMark Roulo2008/09/11 12:18 PM
                                                                Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 05:59 PM
                                                                  Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds2008/09/11 07:16 PM
                                                                    Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 10:28 PM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyMS2009/02/03 03:06 PM
                                                  SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/11 12:39 PM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/11 01:17 PM
                                                      SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/11 05:25 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 05:47 PM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyrwessel2008/09/11 06:01 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/12 12:00 AM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous2008/09/12 08:52 PM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon2008/09/13 10:06 AM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyUngo2008/09/15 12:18 PM
                                                              To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveDavid Kanter2008/09/22 01:12 AM
                                                                To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveHoward Chu2008/09/22 04:02 AM
                                                                  To SSD or not? Real data..Linus Torvalds2008/09/22 07:33 AM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Ungo2008/09/22 12:27 PM
                                                                      4K sectorsWes Felter2008/09/22 06:03 PM
                                                                        4K sectorsDaniel2008/09/22 10:31 PM
                                                                      Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDoug Siebert2008/09/22 09:38 PM
                                                                        Reasons for >512 byte sectorsrwessel2008/09/22 10:09 PM
                                                                          Reasons for >512 byte sectorsHoward Chu2008/09/23 02:50 AM
                                                                        Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel2008/09/22 10:40 PM
                                                                          Reasons for >512 byte sectorsrwessel2008/09/23 09:11 AM
                                                                            Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel2008/09/23 12:10 PM
                                                                      HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart2008/09/23 05:32 AM
                                                                        HDD long sector size availabilityrwessel2008/09/23 09:19 AM
                                                                          HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart2008/09/23 02:17 PM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Jouni Osmala2008/09/22 11:16 PM
                                                                  To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveWes Felter2008/09/22 11:25 AM
                                                                How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Rob Thorpe2008/09/22 02:01 PM
                                                                  How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Matt Craighead2008/09/23 06:59 PM
                                                                    How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Matt Sayler2008/09/24 04:17 AM
                                                            ATA/SCSIS, Write Flushes and Asych FilesystemsTruePath2009/01/25 04:44 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyMichael S2008/09/12 04:58 AM
                                                        overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/12 04:59 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read David W. Hess2008/09/12 09:56 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read Anonymous2008/09/12 08:45 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Jouni Osmala2008/09/12 11:56 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/13 11:29 AM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S2008/09/13 12:09 PM
                                                              overlapped erase and read Linus Torvalds2008/09/13 02:05 PM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert2008/09/11 05:31 PM
                                SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/09/08 02:07 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2008/09/08 02:30 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCEduardoS2008/09/08 04:01 PM
                                      SSD and RAIDJoe Chang2008/09/08 07:42 PM
                                        SSD and RAIDDoug Siebert2008/09/08 09:46 PM
                                          SSD and RAIDAaron Spink2008/09/09 04:27 PM
                                            SSD and RAIDGroo2008/09/10 01:02 PM
                              SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 10:22 AM
                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 02:04 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/06 03:24 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 04:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCanonymous2009/01/06 05:17 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 05:58 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/07 12:35 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 05:45 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/06 06:09 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/06 07:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/07 12:26 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCanon2009/01/06 08:23 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel2009/01/07 12:52 AM
                                        SLC vs. MLCanon2009/01/07 02:34 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCIntelUser20002009/01/07 07:43 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/07 10:28 AM
                                      drop data filesystem semanticDoug Siebert2009/01/09 12:21 PM
                                      FTL and FSiz2009/01/09 07:49 PM
                                        FTL and FSLinus Torvalds2009/01/09 09:53 PM
                                          FTL and FSiz2009/01/10 02:09 AM
                                            FTL and FSMichael S2009/01/10 03:19 PM
                                              compiling large programsiz2009/01/10 05:51 PM
                                                compiling large programsLinus Torvalds2009/01/10 07:58 PM
                                                  compiling large programspeter2009/01/11 05:30 AM
                                                  compiling large programsAndi Kleen2009/01/11 01:03 PM
                                                  The File AbstractionTruePath2009/01/25 06:45 AM
                                                    The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/25 01:49 PM
                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 09:23 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionMichael S2009/01/26 01:39 PM
                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 02:31 PM
                                                            The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/26 03:06 PM
                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/26 04:29 PM
                                                                The File AbstractionMark Christiansen2009/01/27 09:24 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionMark Christiansen2009/01/27 10:14 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/27 10:15 AM
                                                                    The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/27 11:20 AM
                                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/27 01:16 PM
                                                                        Attributes All The Way DownMark Christiansen2009/01/27 02:17 PM
                                                                        The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/27 05:25 PM
                                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/28 08:17 AM
                                                                            The File Abstraction: API thoughtsCarlie Coats2009/01/28 09:35 AM
                                                                            The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/28 10:09 AM
                                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/28 01:44 PM
                                                                                Programs already 'hide' their metadata in the bytestream, unbeknownst to usersanon2009/01/28 09:28 PM
                                                                                The File Abstractionslacker2009/01/29 10:39 AM
                                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds2009/01/29 11:08 AM
                                                                                    The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/29 11:49 AM
                                                                                      The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/29 02:58 PM
                                                                                        The File Abstractionrwessel2009/01/29 04:23 PM
                                                                                    Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/29 03:05 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionstubar2009/01/29 04:49 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionLinus Torvalds2009/01/29 05:15 PM
                                                                                        Like Duhanon2009/01/29 07:42 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhanon2009/01/29 09:15 PM
                                                                                            Like Duhanon2009/02/01 07:18 PM
                                                                                              Double Duh.Anonymous2009/02/01 10:58 PM
                                                                                                Double Duh.anon2009/02/02 02:08 AM
                                                                                                  Double Duh.Anonymous2009/02/02 05:11 PM
                                                                                                    Double Duh.anon2009/02/02 07:33 PM
                                                                                              Like DuhDavid Kanter2009/02/01 11:05 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhpeter2009/02/01 11:55 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhanon2009/02/02 01:55 AM
                                                                                                Xattrs, Solar power, regulation and politicsRob Thorpe2009/02/02 04:36 AM
                                                                                                  Terminology seems too fuzzy to mehobold2009/02/02 06:14 AM
                                                                                                    Terminology seems too fuzzy to merwessel2009/02/02 12:33 PM
                                                                                                      good summaryMichael S2009/02/03 02:41 AM
                                                                                                        good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 09:57 AM
                                                                                                          good summaryHoward Chu2009/02/03 10:21 AM
                                                                                                            good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 11:18 AM
                                                                                                              good summaryHoward Chu2009/02/03 12:00 PM
                                                                                                                good summaryMark Christiansen2009/02/03 12:36 PM
                                                                                                          good summaryRagingDragon2009/02/03 10:39 PM
                                                                                                            good summaryrwessel2009/02/03 11:03 PM
                                                                                                              good summaryRagingDragon2009/02/03 11:46 PM
                                                                                                      Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker2009/02/04 05:06 PM
                                                                                                        Terminology seems too fuzzy to meMichael S2009/02/05 01:05 AM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meUngo2009/02/05 01:15 PM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker2009/02/05 02:19 PM
                                                                                                            Terminology seems too fuzzy to meHoward Chu2009/02/05 04:44 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhiz2009/01/30 02:03 AM
                                                                                          EAs (security labels) hosed me badlyanon2009/01/30 09:48 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in ActionRagingDragon2009/01/29 09:31 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous2009/01/29 08:13 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/29 09:38 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/30 11:24 AM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/30 05:50 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionEtienne Lehnart2009/01/30 12:22 AM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionRob Thorpe2009/01/30 12:39 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker2009/01/30 01:16 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/30 06:03 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/30 11:22 PM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel2009/01/31 12:08 AM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous2009/01/31 12:22 AM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel2009/01/31 12:56 AM
                                                                                                  ScalingDean Kent2009/01/31 09:04 AM
                                                                                                    ScalingRob Thorpe2009/02/02 02:39 AM
                                                                                                      Scalingrwessel2009/02/02 11:41 AM
                                                                                                        ScalingHoward Chu2009/02/02 12:30 PM
                                                                                                          ScalingDean Kent2009/02/02 02:27 PM
                                                                                                            ScalingRob Thorpe2009/02/03 05:08 AM
                                                                                                              ScalingDean Kent2009/02/03 07:38 AM
                                                                                                              Scalingrwessel2009/02/03 02:34 PM
                                                                                                                ScalingRagingDragon2009/02/03 10:46 PM
                                                                                                    in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 11:27 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleHoward Chu2009/02/03 12:03 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 12:17 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon2009/02/03 11:00 PM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleMichael S2009/02/04 06:46 AM
                                                                                                            in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon2009/02/04 09:33 PM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleDean Kent2009/02/03 12:17 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler2009/02/03 12:24 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleVincent Diepeveen2009/02/04 10:43 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scalerwessel2009/02/03 02:44 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleanon2009/02/04 02:35 AM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleCarlie Coats2009/02/04 05:24 AM
                                                                                                      Scaling with time vs. scaling from the beginning.mpx2009/02/05 01:57 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionMichael S2009/01/31 10:33 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in Actionanon2009/01/31 10:37 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB2009/01/31 08:11 AM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/01/31 11:43 AM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB2009/01/31 04:37 PM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/02/02 02:42 PM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu2009/02/02 02:44 PM
                                                                    The File AbstractionRob Thorpe2009/01/27 11:20 AM
                                                              The File AbstractionHoward Chu2009/01/27 12:28 AM
                                                                The File AbstractionMichael S2009/01/27 03:00 AM
                                                                The File AbstractionDean Kent2009/01/27 08:30 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionAndi Kleen2009/01/27 02:05 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCMichel2009/01/12 06:54 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds2009/01/12 07:38 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel2009/01/13 12:52 AM
                                      SLC vs. MLCUngo2009/01/13 03:04 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCWes Felter2009/01/13 05:42 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCTruePath2009/01/25 05:05 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCUngo2008/08/21 12:54 PM
                    SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink2008/08/21 01:20 PM
                  MLC vs. SLCMichael S2008/08/21 08:57 AM
                First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel2008/08/21 10:40 AM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink2008/08/21 03:18 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsEtienne Lehnart2008/08/20 04:38 AM
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    Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann2008/08/20 12:28 AM
      Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/20 03:42 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?David Kanter2008/08/21 01:13 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Joe Chang2008/08/21 06:54 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?asdf2008/08/22 01:18 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/22 07:54 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann2008/08/22 09:48 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W2008/08/24 01:06 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/24 04:19 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/24 09:30 AM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Paul2008/08/24 11:16 AM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/24 12:37 PM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/25 12:53 AM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/22 10:19 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?aaron spink2008/08/23 02:56 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S2008/08/23 09:58 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 01:51 PM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 01:55 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Aaron Spink2008/08/23 04:52 PM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous2008/08/23 05:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/23 06:12 PM
                    Off road and topicEduardoS2008/08/23 06:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?someone2008/08/23 06:26 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent2008/08/23 09:40 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous2008/08/24 01:46 AM
                  Off road and topicDavid W. Hess2008/08/24 03:24 AM
                    Off road and topicAaron Spink2008/08/24 04:14 AM
  Beckton vs. DunningtonMr. Camel2008/08/22 06:30 AM
    Beckton vs. Dunningtonjokerman2008/08/22 12:12 PM
    Beckton vs. DunningtonMr. Camel2009/05/29 10:16 AM
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