Article: Tukwila Update
By: Vincent Diepeveen (diep.delete@this.xs4all.nl), February 8, 2009 5:35 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Dean Kent (dkent@realworldtech.com) on 2/6/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>Devon Welles (no@thanks.com) on 2/6/09 wrote:
>---------------------------
>
>>
>>Do you even know what "revenue" is? Seriously, it's becoming more of a mystery why you even bother to post here.
>
>Revenue is an interesting metric. If, for example, revenue increases 10% per year
>- does that mean 'increased market', or 'increased profit' or just 'increased revenue'
>with no context whatsoever, and therefore pretty meaningless. Did the cost go
>up, and therefore the price (so no additional profit)? Or did just the price go
>up, with no change in cost? Or were more units sold at the same price per unit?
>Or did the price per unit decrease, and there were a lot more units sold? And,
>what happened in the entire market - did revenue increase or decrease, and why (fewer
>units, reduced costs, difference in exchange rates)?
>
>Meaningless without context, really. People presume that price stays static, and
>therefore increased revenue means increased unit sales - but that isn't necessarily the case.
>
>If companies and people would discuss 'units', that might eliminate some of the
>arguing, because at least then everyone is (hopefully) talking about the same thing.
>
>Regards,
>Dean
During a recession having a metric to measure things is really complicated, because typical you see that some very seldom or weirdo junk sells really well during a recession
For example http://www.spykercars.nl sold MORE cars previous years and is going to sell even more this year from their exclusive hand made custom cars. Having such a car is really an unique experience.
Idemdito if you sell some dinosaur type hardware like itanium, you can expect that your sales do not suffer in the same manner from a recession like normal server sales do.
A normal server you can replace after a few years, but it sure can keep running for another few years. So when recession starts, you can delay buying a new one for a few years.
Not so long ago i was in a very big bank (i really must avoid quoting which one on the net) and i was a bit amazed to still see an OS run over there with software which i would qualify as being "from the start of the 90s", at most.
It is doing the job for them. Whether they work on with their standard components for another few years, or upgrade it to the latest TFT, that is a matter of budget.
Budget very limited there.
In times of recession seldom things like gold get worth more as a result of that.
Comparing such markets therefore with other markets is really hard.
If we're gonna see a few years from now new cpu's (nvidia?) that have teraflops worth of crunching power a chip, yet to program such that you can effectively use those teraflops very efficiently, it is going to be a huge challenge.
That means in short that x86/x64 hardware that focuses just upon being a faster x86 chip, it is something that's gonna be a market that you can sell to for at least another 25 years.
Vincent
---------------------------
>Devon Welles (no@thanks.com) on 2/6/09 wrote:
>---------------------------
>
>>
>>Do you even know what "revenue" is? Seriously, it's becoming more of a mystery why you even bother to post here.
>
>Revenue is an interesting metric. If, for example, revenue increases 10% per year
>- does that mean 'increased market', or 'increased profit' or just 'increased revenue'
>with no context whatsoever, and therefore pretty meaningless. Did the cost go
>up, and therefore the price (so no additional profit)? Or did just the price go
>up, with no change in cost? Or were more units sold at the same price per unit?
>Or did the price per unit decrease, and there were a lot more units sold? And,
>what happened in the entire market - did revenue increase or decrease, and why (fewer
>units, reduced costs, difference in exchange rates)?
>
>Meaningless without context, really. People presume that price stays static, and
>therefore increased revenue means increased unit sales - but that isn't necessarily the case.
>
>If companies and people would discuss 'units', that might eliminate some of the
>arguing, because at least then everyone is (hopefully) talking about the same thing.
>
>Regards,
>Dean
During a recession having a metric to measure things is really complicated, because typical you see that some very seldom or weirdo junk sells really well during a recession
For example http://www.spykercars.nl sold MORE cars previous years and is going to sell even more this year from their exclusive hand made custom cars. Having such a car is really an unique experience.
Idemdito if you sell some dinosaur type hardware like itanium, you can expect that your sales do not suffer in the same manner from a recession like normal server sales do.
A normal server you can replace after a few years, but it sure can keep running for another few years. So when recession starts, you can delay buying a new one for a few years.
Not so long ago i was in a very big bank (i really must avoid quoting which one on the net) and i was a bit amazed to still see an OS run over there with software which i would qualify as being "from the start of the 90s", at most.
It is doing the job for them. Whether they work on with their standard components for another few years, or upgrade it to the latest TFT, that is a matter of budget.
Budget very limited there.
In times of recession seldom things like gold get worth more as a result of that.
Comparing such markets therefore with other markets is really hard.
If we're gonna see a few years from now new cpu's (nvidia?) that have teraflops worth of crunching power a chip, yet to program such that you can effectively use those teraflops very efficiently, it is going to be a huge challenge.
That means in short that x86/x64 hardware that focuses just upon being a faster x86 chip, it is something that's gonna be a market that you can sell to for at least another 25 years.
Vincent
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
Tukwila Update - article online | David Kanter | 2009/02/05 12:03 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Dan | 2009/02/05 03:17 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Joe Chang | 2009/02/05 09:16 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Temp | 2009/02/05 09:25 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Paul | 2009/02/05 12:29 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | David Kanter | 2009/02/05 06:32 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Phil | 2009/02/06 01:24 AM |
Great. Finally hard numbers | Michael S | 2009/02/06 04:46 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | lubemark | 2009/02/06 05:54 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Phil | 2009/02/06 07:29 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 03:39 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Michael S | 2009/02/07 04:09 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | savantu | 2009/02/06 06:23 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Michael S | 2009/02/06 07:13 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/06 07:18 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Phil | 2009/02/06 07:47 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/06 08:17 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 03:51 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/06 08:37 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/06 09:19 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | savantu | 2009/02/06 10:19 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/06 10:40 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | savantu | 2009/02/06 11:00 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Phil | 2009/02/09 04:54 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/09 10:40 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Jouni Osmala | 2009/02/10 01:03 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/10 06:15 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | slacker | 2009/02/10 06:22 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Michael S | 2009/02/05 03:56 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | David Kanter | 2009/02/05 04:55 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/05 05:47 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | anon | 2009/02/05 10:16 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | RagingDragon | 2009/02/05 10:27 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/06 07:32 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | anon | 2009/02/06 09:25 AM |
Tukwila Update - article online | someone | 2009/02/06 09:40 AM |
POWER6 memory bandwidth | Michael S | 2009/02/05 03:30 AM |
POWER6 memory bandwidth | someone | 2009/02/05 07:00 AM |
POWER6 memory bandwidth | Michael S | 2009/02/05 07:36 AM |
POWER6 interconnect | confused | 2009/02/05 10:50 AM |
POWER6 interconnect | foobar | 2009/02/05 02:12 PM |
POWER6 memory bandwidth | Wes Felter | 2009/02/05 12:57 PM |
POWER6 memory bandwidth | Jesper Frimann | 2009/02/09 11:54 PM |
POWER6 memory bandwidth | Michael S | 2009/02/10 07:21 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/05 08:40 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/05 08:50 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/05 09:29 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/05 10:34 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/05 11:09 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Phil | 2009/02/06 01:10 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/06 01:50 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Phil | 2009/02/06 07:09 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/06 10:08 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/06 10:21 AM |
Why the platform focus? | mpx | 2009/02/06 02:04 PM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/06 02:16 PM |
Why the platform focus? | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 04:16 PM |
Why the platform focus? | mas | 2009/02/25 08:28 AM |
itanium bigger than entire car industry | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/06 07:12 AM |
itanium bigger than entire car industry | Devon Welles | 2009/02/06 07:51 AM |
itanium bigger than entire car industry | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/06 10:41 AM |
itanium bigger than entire car industry | Dean Kent | 2009/02/06 07:56 PM |
Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows faster | someone | 2009/02/07 09:38 AM |
Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows faster | Dean Kent | 2009/02/07 03:10 PM |
Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows faster | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 04:34 PM |
itanium bigger than entire car industry | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/08 05:35 AM |
itanium bigger than entire car industry | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 04:40 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/06 07:47 AM |
Yes it doesm performance matters | bob | 2009/02/05 10:51 AM |
Yes it doesm performance matters | Venki | 2009/02/05 11:06 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/06 01:07 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/06 02:00 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/05 10:49 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/05 12:03 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Default | 2009/02/05 01:29 PM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/05 02:08 PM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/05 02:24 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/05 03:30 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Paradox | 2009/02/05 11:22 AM |
Why the platform focus? | slacker | 2009/02/05 01:41 PM |
Why the platform focus? | RagingDragon | 2009/02/05 10:57 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/06 06:11 AM |
Why the platform focus? | slacker | 2009/02/06 01:58 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/08 02:24 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/08 09:38 AM |
Why the platform focus? | David Kanter | 2009/02/08 04:27 PM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/08 07:26 PM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/09 12:35 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/08 09:53 AM |
All x86 SpecInt scores are useless due to autopar (NT) | Michael S | 2009/02/05 03:15 PM |
Auto parallelization | David Kanter | 2009/02/05 06:17 PM |
All x86 SpecInt scores are useless due to autopar (NT) | Paradox | 2009/02/06 08:47 AM |
Why the platform focus? | David Kanter | 2009/02/05 04:49 PM |
Why the platform focus? | David Kanter | 2009/02/06 01:09 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/06 08:14 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/06 10:37 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/06 12:49 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/06 01:09 PM |
Intel puts its money where its mouth is | someone | 2009/02/06 02:08 PM |
Intel puts its money where its mouth is | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 06:01 PM |
Intel puts its money where its mouth is | someone | 2009/02/08 02:24 PM |
mission-critical | Michael S | 2009/02/08 05:06 PM |
mission-critical | mpx | 2009/02/09 02:30 AM |
mission-critical | rwessel | 2009/02/09 03:23 PM |
mission-critical | anon | 2009/02/09 03:55 AM |
mission-critical | EduardoS | 2009/02/09 05:17 PM |
mission-critical | Dean Kent | 2009/02/09 08:11 PM |
mission-critical | Michael S | 2009/02/10 05:20 AM |
mission-critical | Dean Kent | 2009/02/10 07:26 AM |
mission-critical | Michael S | 2009/02/10 08:01 AM |
mission-critical | Dean Kent | 2009/02/10 01:36 PM |
mission-critical | someone | 2009/02/10 09:05 AM |
mission-critical | Dean Kent | 2009/02/10 01:22 PM |
mission-critical | Zt | 2009/02/22 04:54 PM |
mission-critical | anon | 2009/02/10 10:41 PM |
mission-critical | EduardoS | 2009/02/10 01:46 PM |
mission-critical | Dean Kent | 2009/02/10 02:31 PM |
mission-critical | slacker | 2009/02/10 07:30 PM |
mission-critical | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/18 07:20 AM |
Mission critical | mpx | 2009/02/09 01:00 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/07 01:15 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | David Kanter | 2009/02/07 01:34 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | max | 2009/02/07 03:30 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | someone | 2009/02/07 10:19 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/07 10:44 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 06:09 PM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | Michael S | 2009/02/08 05:05 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | RagingDragon | 2009/02/10 12:03 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | Jesper Frimann | 2009/02/10 12:51 AM |
Sun and x86 server differentiation | Alex Jones | 2009/02/10 01:43 PM |
Why the platform focus? | bob | 2009/02/08 04:51 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/08 09:23 AM |
missing the big picture | AM | 2009/02/18 06:43 AM |
missing the big picture | Michael S | 2009/02/18 08:42 AM |
missing the big picture | AM | 2009/02/18 09:03 AM |
Why the platform focus? | mpx | 2009/02/06 12:47 PM |
Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW. | mpx | 2009/02/06 04:48 PM |
Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW. | Paul | 2009/02/07 02:56 PM |
z series? | Michael S | 2009/02/07 03:12 PM |
Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW. | someone else | 2009/02/24 04:37 AM |
Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW. | EduardoS | 2009/02/24 06:55 AM |
Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW. | someone else | 2009/02/25 01:55 AM |
Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW. | Michael S | 2009/02/25 02:27 AM |
Why the platform focus? | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 06:18 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Paul | 2009/02/08 01:10 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Jukka Larja | 2009/02/08 11:04 PM |
Why the platform focus? | slacker | 2009/02/06 02:10 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/06 02:40 PM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/06 02:51 PM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/06 02:58 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/07 09:26 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/07 10:10 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/07 10:40 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/07 12:24 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/08 12:32 AM |
Why the platform focus? | max | 2009/02/08 04:57 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/08 05:20 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/08 09:15 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/08 11:36 PM |
Why the platform focus? | hobold | 2009/02/09 05:49 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/24 01:57 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/24 09:45 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/24 12:30 PM |
Why the platform focus? | slacker | 2009/02/24 01:51 PM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/25 12:04 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/25 02:34 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/25 10:17 AM |
Why the platform focus? | max | 2009/02/25 11:15 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/24 05:43 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/24 08:26 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Howard Chu | 2009/02/25 03:07 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/25 06:48 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/25 06:41 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/25 09:17 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/25 09:55 AM |
has anyone seen Tukwila silicon? | anon | 2009/02/25 10:38 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Linus Torvalds | 2009/02/25 11:05 AM |
Why the platform focus? | slacker | 2009/02/25 01:11 PM |
Why the platform focus? | a reader | 2009/02/26 09:11 PM |
Why the platform focus? | rcf | 2009/02/27 01:32 PM |
Why the platform focus? | max | 2009/02/27 02:11 PM |
Why the platform focus? | rcf | 2009/02/27 03:50 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/25 04:30 PM |
$40M sale to $16M company | bob | 2009/02/25 08:25 PM |
$40M sale to $16M company | Richard Cownie | 2009/02/26 12:21 PM |
Why the platform focus? | anonymous | 2009/02/24 11:52 AM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/24 12:20 PM |
Why the platform focus? | anonymous | 2009/02/24 03:31 PM |
Why the platform focus? | savantu | 2009/02/25 12:05 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone else | 2009/02/25 01:04 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/25 01:42 AM |
Put me down for $500 that Poulson doesn't arrive earlier than Q4/2011 (NT) | slacker | 2009/02/25 12:39 PM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/25 06:54 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anonymous | 2009/02/25 09:46 AM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/25 10:22 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/25 11:01 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anonymous | 2009/02/25 11:54 AM |
Why the platform focus? | mpx | 2009/02/24 02:11 PM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/24 08:57 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/24 10:04 PM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/24 10:46 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/25 05:13 PM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/25 08:53 PM |
Why the platform focus? | bob | 2009/02/25 09:00 PM |
Please try to keep up (NT) | anon | 2009/02/25 09:49 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Doug Siebert | 2009/02/26 12:09 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/26 01:12 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/26 02:16 AM |
Why the platform focus? | James | 2009/02/26 06:09 AM |
sufficiently intimate with the OS | Michael S | 2009/02/26 06:29 AM |
sufficiently intimate with the OS | anon | 2009/02/27 01:01 AM |
sufficiently intimate with the OS | Howard Chu | 2009/02/27 01:37 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Michael S | 2009/02/25 02:02 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/25 03:07 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/07 01:18 PM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/08 10:16 AM |
Why the platform focus? | anon | 2009/02/25 07:40 AM |
Intels financial status | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/25 12:02 PM |
Why the platform focus? | someone | 2009/02/25 07:54 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/06 08:20 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Default | 2009/02/06 09:57 AM |
Why the platform focus? | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/06 10:59 AM |
Why the platform focus? | RagingDragon | 2009/02/07 06:43 PM |
Tukwila Update - article online | Vincent Diepeveen | 2009/02/05 09:11 AM |