Why the platform focus?

Article: Tukwila Update
By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), February 5, 2009 3:30 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
someone (someone@somewhere.com) on 2/5/09 wrote:
>No. HP only sells the 24 MB SKU in bigger machines with
>slower memory systems and/or slower FSBs.

Ok. That's unexpected (I'd expect them to want to have
a "high end" sku for people who want to pay for them), but
Itanium never made much sense to me as a market so I guess
"unexpected" is just par for the course for me ;)

>Same compiler, 1.6 GHz:
>r6600, 24 MB L3, 533 MHz FSB - 14.5 SPECint_base2006
>r3600, 18 MB L3, 533 MHz FSB - 13.9 "
>r2620, 18 MB L3, 400 MHz FSB - 13.4 "

I was too lazy to wade through the details, so I just went
by "same vendor, same date" (as an approximation for "same
compiler"), and looked at the frequency and cache size.

And I then expected a larger cache to go with the more
expensive product that would presumably have had a better
FSB, rather than the other way around.

So I did not really expect to see the "oh, more cache but
crappier FSB" case. Yes, I mentioned it as a possibility,
but I didn't really think anybody would do that.

Thanks for lining them up like that.

>33% more BW = +4%
>33% more L3 = +4%
>33% more BW+L3 = +8%

And I'll happily admit that 4% is actually a bigger change
from just the higher FSB frequency than I expected. I
guess I'm still mentally stuck with Spec2000.

>Changes - Mont 9xxx -> Tukwila:
>smaller L3 per core (12/9 MB -> 6 MB per core)
>lower memory latency (4s: 10s of ns, 16s+: 100s of ns)
>higher mem BW per core (0.8-2.6 GB/s -> 8.5 GB/s)
>higher CPU frequency (1.60-1.66 -> 2 GHz = 20-25%)
>- SPECint likely won't improve too much (<10% ?) above
>GHz increase (20-25%) and compiler improvements (???).

Agreed. And I really think that the frequency thing is
what matters. 2GHz is going to help. But 2.4GHz or
something like that would have been a much bigger deal.

As it is, it may drag the numbers from "pitiful" to "not
nearly competitive with x86, but at least with POWER".

>- bigger improvements in SPECfp, huge improvements in
>- bigger system = bigger relative performance boost.

.. except x86 grew bigger much faster with Core i7
(assuming Intel does release the 8-core version, of course,
and I don't think there's any reason to really doubt that).

So all the Specrate and parallel performance metrics will
actually be much smaller compared to x86.

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TopicPosted ByDate
Tukwila Update - article onlineDavid Kanter2009/02/05 12:03 AM
  Tukwila Update - article onlineDan2009/02/05 03:17 AM
    Tukwila Update - article onlineJoe Chang2009/02/05 09:16 AM
    Tukwila Update - article onlineTemp2009/02/05 09:25 AM
      Tukwila Update - article onlinePaul2009/02/05 12:29 PM
        Tukwila Update - article onlineDavid Kanter2009/02/05 06:32 PM
          Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/06 01:24 AM
            Great. Finally hard numbersMichael S2009/02/06 04:46 AM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinelubemark2009/02/06 05:54 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/06 07:29 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineRagingDragon2009/02/07 03:39 PM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlineMichael S2009/02/07 04:09 PM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinesavantu2009/02/06 06:23 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlineMichael S2009/02/06 07:13 AM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 07:18 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/06 07:47 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 08:17 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineRagingDragon2009/02/07 03:51 PM
              Tukwila Update - article onlineLinus Torvalds2009/02/06 08:37 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 09:19 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlinesavantu2009/02/06 10:19 AM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlineLinus Torvalds2009/02/06 10:40 AM
                    Tukwila Update - article onlinesavantu2009/02/06 11:00 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/09 04:54 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineDoug Siebert2009/02/09 10:40 PM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlineJouni Osmala2009/02/10 01:03 AM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/10 06:15 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineslacker2009/02/10 06:22 PM
    Tukwila Update - article onlineMichael S2009/02/05 03:56 PM
    Tukwila Update - article onlineDavid Kanter2009/02/05 04:55 PM
    Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/05 05:47 PM
      Tukwila Update - article onlineanon2009/02/05 10:16 PM
        Tukwila Update - article onlineRagingDragon2009/02/05 10:27 PM
        Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 07:32 AM
          Tukwila Update - article onlineanon2009/02/06 09:25 AM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 09:40 AM
  POWER6 memory bandwidthMichael S2009/02/05 03:30 AM
    POWER6 memory bandwidthsomeone2009/02/05 07:00 AM
      POWER6 memory bandwidthMichael S2009/02/05 07:36 AM
      POWER6 interconnectconfused2009/02/05 10:50 AM
        POWER6 interconnectfoobar2009/02/05 02:12 PM
    POWER6 memory bandwidthWes Felter2009/02/05 12:57 PM
    POWER6 memory bandwidthJesper Frimann2009/02/09 11:54 PM
      POWER6 memory bandwidthMichael S2009/02/10 07:21 AM
  Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/05 08:40 AM
    Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/05 08:50 AM
      Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/05 09:29 AM
        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/05 10:34 PM
          Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/05 11:09 PM
          Why the platform focus?Phil2009/02/06 01:10 AM
            Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 01:50 AM
              Why the platform focus?Phil2009/02/06 07:09 AM
                Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 10:08 AM
                Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/06 10:21 AM
                  Why the platform focus?mpx2009/02/06 02:04 PM
                    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/06 02:16 PM
                Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/07 04:16 PM
                Why the platform focus?mas2009/02/25 08:28 AM
              itanium bigger than entire car industryVincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 07:12 AM
                itanium bigger than entire car industryDevon Welles2009/02/06 07:51 AM
                  itanium bigger than entire car industryVincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 10:41 AM
                  itanium bigger than entire car industryDean Kent2009/02/06 07:56 PM
                    Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows fastersomeone2009/02/07 09:38 AM
                      Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows fasterDean Kent2009/02/07 03:10 PM
                        Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows fasterRagingDragon2009/02/07 04:34 PM
                    itanium bigger than entire car industryVincent Diepeveen2009/02/08 05:35 AM
                itanium bigger than entire car industryRagingDragon2009/02/07 04:40 PM
            Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 07:47 AM
      Yes it doesm performance mattersbob2009/02/05 10:51 AM
        Yes it doesm performance mattersVenki2009/02/05 11:06 AM
      Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/06 01:07 AM
        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 02:00 AM
    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/05 10:49 AM
      Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/05 12:03 PM
        Why the platform focus?Default2009/02/05 01:29 PM
          Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/05 02:08 PM
        Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/05 02:24 PM
          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/05 03:30 PM
    Why the platform focus?Paradox2009/02/05 11:22 AM
    Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/05 01:41 PM
      Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/05 10:57 PM
      Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/06 06:11 AM
        Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/06 01:58 PM
          Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/08 02:24 AM
            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:38 AM
              Why the platform focus?David Kanter2009/02/08 04:27 PM
                Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 07:26 PM
                  Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/09 12:35 AM
          Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:53 AM
    All x86 SpecInt scores are useless due to autopar (NT)Michael S2009/02/05 03:15 PM
      Auto parallelizationDavid Kanter2009/02/05 06:17 PM
      All x86 SpecInt scores are useless due to autopar (NT)Paradox2009/02/06 08:47 AM
    Why the platform focus?David Kanter2009/02/05 04:49 PM
    Why the platform focus?David Kanter2009/02/06 01:09 AM
      Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 08:14 AM
        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 10:37 AM
          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 12:49 PM
            Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 01:09 PM
            Intel puts its money where its mouth issomeone2009/02/06 02:08 PM
              Intel puts its money where its mouth isRagingDragon2009/02/07 06:01 PM
                Intel puts its money where its mouth issomeone2009/02/08 02:24 PM
                  mission-criticalMichael S2009/02/08 05:06 PM
                    mission-criticalmpx2009/02/09 02:30 AM
                      mission-criticalrwessel2009/02/09 03:23 PM
                    mission-criticalanon2009/02/09 03:55 AM
                    mission-criticalEduardoS2009/02/09 05:17 PM
                      mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/09 08:11 PM
                        mission-criticalMichael S2009/02/10 05:20 AM
                          mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 07:26 AM
                            mission-criticalMichael S2009/02/10 08:01 AM
                              mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 01:36 PM
                            mission-criticalsomeone2009/02/10 09:05 AM
                              mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 01:22 PM
                                mission-criticalZt2009/02/22 04:54 PM
                          mission-criticalanon2009/02/10 10:41 PM
                        mission-criticalEduardoS2009/02/10 01:46 PM
                          mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 02:31 PM
                        mission-criticalslacker2009/02/10 07:30 PM
                    mission-criticalVincent Diepeveen2009/02/18 07:20 AM
                  Mission criticalmpx2009/02/09 01:00 AM
            Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/07 01:15 AM
              Sun and x86 server differentiationDavid Kanter2009/02/07 01:34 AM
                Sun and x86 server differentiationmax2009/02/07 03:30 AM
                Sun and x86 server differentiationsomeone2009/02/07 10:19 AM
                  Sun and x86 server differentiationLinus Torvalds2009/02/07 10:44 AM
                Sun and x86 server differentiationRagingDragon2009/02/07 06:09 PM
                  Sun and x86 server differentiationMichael S2009/02/08 05:05 AM
                    Sun and x86 server differentiationRagingDragon2009/02/10 12:03 AM
                    Sun and x86 server differentiationJesper Frimann2009/02/10 12:51 AM
                      Sun and x86 server differentiationAlex Jones2009/02/10 01:43 PM
            Why the platform focus?bob2009/02/08 04:51 AM
              Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:23 AM
          missing the big pictureAM2009/02/18 06:43 AM
            missing the big pictureMichael S2009/02/18 08:42 AM
              missing the big pictureAM2009/02/18 09:03 AM
        Why the platform focus?mpx2009/02/06 12:47 PM
          Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.mpx2009/02/06 04:48 PM
            Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.Paul2009/02/07 02:56 PM
              z series?Michael S2009/02/07 03:12 PM
              Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.someone else2009/02/24 04:37 AM
                Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.EduardoS2009/02/24 06:55 AM
                  Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.someone else2009/02/25 01:55 AM
                    Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.Michael S2009/02/25 02:27 AM
          Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/07 06:18 PM
            Why the platform focus?Paul2009/02/08 01:10 PM
              Why the platform focus?Jukka Larja2009/02/08 11:04 PM
        Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/06 02:10 PM
          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 02:40 PM
            Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 02:51 PM
            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/06 02:58 PM
              Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/07 09:26 AM
                Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/07 10:10 AM
                  Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/07 10:40 AM
                    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/07 12:24 PM
                      Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/08 12:32 AM
                        Why the platform focus?max2009/02/08 04:57 AM
                          Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/08 05:20 AM
                        Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:15 AM
                          Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/08 11:36 PM
                      Why the platform focus?hobold2009/02/09 05:49 AM
                Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/24 01:57 AM
                  Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/24 09:45 AM
                    Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/24 12:30 PM
                      Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/24 01:51 PM
                        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/25 12:04 AM
                          Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/25 02:34 AM
                          Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 10:17 AM
                      Why the platform focus?max2009/02/25 11:15 AM
                    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/24 05:43 PM
                      Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/24 08:26 PM
                        Why the platform focus?Howard Chu2009/02/25 03:07 AM
                          Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 06:48 AM
                        Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 06:41 AM
                          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/25 09:17 AM
                            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 09:55 AM
                              has anyone seen Tukwila silicon?anon2009/02/25 10:38 AM
                              Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/25 11:05 AM
                                Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/25 01:11 PM
                                Why the platform focus?a reader2009/02/26 09:11 PM
                                  Why the platform focus?rcf2009/02/27 01:32 PM
                                    Why the platform focus?max2009/02/27 02:11 PM
                                      Why the platform focus?rcf2009/02/27 03:50 PM
                            Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/25 04:30 PM
                            $40M sale to $16M companybob2009/02/25 08:25 PM
                              $40M sale to $16M companyRichard Cownie2009/02/26 12:21 PM
                  Why the platform focus?anonymous2009/02/24 11:52 AM
                    Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/24 12:20 PM
                      Why the platform focus?anonymous2009/02/24 03:31 PM
                        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/25 12:05 AM
                        Why the platform focus?someone else2009/02/25 01:04 AM
                          Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/25 01:42 AM
                            Put me down for $500 that Poulson doesn't arrive earlier than Q4/2011 (NT)slacker2009/02/25 12:39 PM
                        Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 06:54 AM
                          Why the platform focus?anonymous2009/02/25 09:46 AM
                            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 10:22 AM
                            Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 11:01 AM
                              Why the platform focus?anonymous2009/02/25 11:54 AM
                  Why the platform focus?mpx2009/02/24 02:11 PM
                    Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/24 08:57 PM
                      Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/24 10:04 PM
                        Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/24 10:46 PM
                          Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/25 05:13 PM
                            Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 08:53 PM
                              Why the platform focus?bob2009/02/25 09:00 PM
                                Please try to keep up (NT)anon2009/02/25 09:49 PM
                              Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/26 12:09 AM
                                Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/26 01:12 AM
                                Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/26 02:16 AM
                                  Why the platform focus?James2009/02/26 06:09 AM
                                    sufficiently intimate with the OSMichael S2009/02/26 06:29 AM
                                      sufficiently intimate with the OSanon2009/02/27 01:01 AM
                                      sufficiently intimate with the OSHoward Chu2009/02/27 01:37 AM
                      Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/25 02:02 AM
                        Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 03:07 AM
              Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/07 01:18 PM
                Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/08 10:16 AM
                Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 07:40 AM
                  Intels financial statusVincent Diepeveen2009/02/25 12:02 PM
                Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 07:54 AM
      Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 08:20 AM
        Why the platform focus?Default2009/02/06 09:57 AM
          Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 10:59 AM
          Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/07 06:43 PM
  Tukwila Update - article onlineVincent Diepeveen2009/02/05 09:11 AM
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