missing the big picture

Article: Tukwila Update
By: AM (myname4rwt on gee-male), February 18, 2009 6:43 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
savantu (savantu@email.ro) on 2/6/09 wrote:
>Linus, you're talking about market segments worth billions of $ where x86 isn't
>present. If the Special Olympics is worth $20B per year and Intel manages to get
>IPF to a 40-50% share in the next 5 years, was it worth it ? They're currently at around 25%.
>If Intel gets 20% of the system price,we're still talking around $1.5-2B per year,
>out of which 75% if profit since IPF doesn't pay for the FABs.What are the developing
>costs for IPF ? $400-500m a year ? I doubt they are higher.
>IPF is in theory economically sound.It simply needs time to get its foot firmly in the door.
>IBM once sold IPF systems.Sales ( systems) were so good, that they were close to
>HPs ( the irony ) and a threat to Power. Out of the blue ( pardon the pun ) IBM
>decides to axe IPF systems.Was it because it questioned to whole point of IBM's in house processor effort ?
>As the situation of IBM microelectronics gradually worsens it's not unquestionable
>to think of a future where mainframe CPUs and ASICs are outsourced ( the new Abu
>Dhabi-AMD foundry, TSMC ) while Power faces the same fate or it is axed. IIRC ,
>there were rumors of Power7 being socket compatible with Opteron.
>The same applies for SPARC. Both SUNs and Fujitsu in house processor programs are
>under pressure.Rock is make or break for SUN while Fujitsu will probably converge
>Primepower with Primequest in the future, porting Solaris to IPF.

i find it pretty funny that this argument is used over and over again as some kind of justification for Itanium. systems with itanium may well bring billions in revenue, but among other things it means little wrt profitability of Itanium for Intel. Arguing that way is either total missing of the big picture, or just refusal to face it.

aside from profitability, consider a few simple questions:

1. what part of demand for those systems has got something to do with instruction set?
2. how having one architecture and sharing cores among server and desktop chips would affect costs at Intel?
3. how having a core which is faster on server workloads would affect competitive aspect for Intel and Itanium system builders?

have a nice time pondering.

PS where is Paul DeMone, by the way? Linus vs Paul debates is what I used to read RWT forum for, they were just too good to miss.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Tukwila Update - article onlineDavid Kanter2009/02/05 12:03 AM
  Tukwila Update - article onlineDan2009/02/05 03:17 AM
    Tukwila Update - article onlineJoe Chang2009/02/05 09:16 AM
    Tukwila Update - article onlineTemp2009/02/05 09:25 AM
      Tukwila Update - article onlinePaul2009/02/05 12:29 PM
        Tukwila Update - article onlineDavid Kanter2009/02/05 06:32 PM
          Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/06 01:24 AM
            Great. Finally hard numbersMichael S2009/02/06 04:46 AM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinelubemark2009/02/06 05:54 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/06 07:29 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineRagingDragon2009/02/07 03:39 PM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlineMichael S2009/02/07 04:09 PM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinesavantu2009/02/06 06:23 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlineMichael S2009/02/06 07:13 AM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 07:18 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/06 07:47 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 08:17 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineRagingDragon2009/02/07 03:51 PM
              Tukwila Update - article onlineLinus Torvalds2009/02/06 08:37 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 09:19 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlinesavantu2009/02/06 10:19 AM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlineLinus Torvalds2009/02/06 10:40 AM
                    Tukwila Update - article onlinesavantu2009/02/06 11:00 AM
              Tukwila Update - article onlinePhil2009/02/09 04:54 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineDoug Siebert2009/02/09 10:40 PM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlineJouni Osmala2009/02/10 01:03 AM
                  Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/10 06:15 AM
                Tukwila Update - article onlineslacker2009/02/10 06:22 PM
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    Tukwila Update - article onlineDavid Kanter2009/02/05 04:55 PM
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      Tukwila Update - article onlineanon2009/02/05 10:16 PM
        Tukwila Update - article onlineRagingDragon2009/02/05 10:27 PM
        Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 07:32 AM
          Tukwila Update - article onlineanon2009/02/06 09:25 AM
            Tukwila Update - article onlinesomeone2009/02/06 09:40 AM
  POWER6 memory bandwidthMichael S2009/02/05 03:30 AM
    POWER6 memory bandwidthsomeone2009/02/05 07:00 AM
      POWER6 memory bandwidthMichael S2009/02/05 07:36 AM
      POWER6 interconnectconfused2009/02/05 10:50 AM
        POWER6 interconnectfoobar2009/02/05 02:12 PM
    POWER6 memory bandwidthWes Felter2009/02/05 12:57 PM
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      POWER6 memory bandwidthMichael S2009/02/10 07:21 AM
  Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/05 08:40 AM
    Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/05 08:50 AM
      Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/05 09:29 AM
        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/05 10:34 PM
          Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/05 11:09 PM
          Why the platform focus?Phil2009/02/06 01:10 AM
            Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 01:50 AM
              Why the platform focus?Phil2009/02/06 07:09 AM
                Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 10:08 AM
                Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/06 10:21 AM
                  Why the platform focus?mpx2009/02/06 02:04 PM
                    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/06 02:16 PM
                Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/07 04:16 PM
                Why the platform focus?mas2009/02/25 08:28 AM
              itanium bigger than entire car industryVincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 07:12 AM
                itanium bigger than entire car industryDevon Welles2009/02/06 07:51 AM
                  itanium bigger than entire car industryVincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 10:41 AM
                  itanium bigger than entire car industryDean Kent2009/02/06 07:56 PM
                    Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows fastersomeone2009/02/07 09:38 AM
                      Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows fasterDean Kent2009/02/07 03:10 PM
                        Unit sales is meaningless when ASP grows fasterRagingDragon2009/02/07 04:34 PM
                    itanium bigger than entire car industryVincent Diepeveen2009/02/08 05:35 AM
                itanium bigger than entire car industryRagingDragon2009/02/07 04:40 PM
            Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 07:47 AM
      Yes it doesm performance mattersbob2009/02/05 10:51 AM
        Yes it doesm performance mattersVenki2009/02/05 11:06 AM
      Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/06 01:07 AM
        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 02:00 AM
    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/05 10:49 AM
      Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/05 12:03 PM
        Why the platform focus?Default2009/02/05 01:29 PM
          Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/05 02:08 PM
        Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/05 02:24 PM
          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/05 03:30 PM
    Why the platform focus?Paradox2009/02/05 11:22 AM
    Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/05 01:41 PM
      Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/05 10:57 PM
      Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/06 06:11 AM
        Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/06 01:58 PM
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            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:38 AM
              Why the platform focus?David Kanter2009/02/08 04:27 PM
                Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 07:26 PM
                  Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/09 12:35 AM
          Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:53 AM
    All x86 SpecInt scores are useless due to autopar (NT)Michael S2009/02/05 03:15 PM
      Auto parallelizationDavid Kanter2009/02/05 06:17 PM
      All x86 SpecInt scores are useless due to autopar (NT)Paradox2009/02/06 08:47 AM
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    Why the platform focus?David Kanter2009/02/06 01:09 AM
      Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 08:14 AM
        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 10:37 AM
          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 12:49 PM
            Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 01:09 PM
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              Intel puts its money where its mouth isRagingDragon2009/02/07 06:01 PM
                Intel puts its money where its mouth issomeone2009/02/08 02:24 PM
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                    mission-criticalmpx2009/02/09 02:30 AM
                      mission-criticalrwessel2009/02/09 03:23 PM
                    mission-criticalanon2009/02/09 03:55 AM
                    mission-criticalEduardoS2009/02/09 05:17 PM
                      mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/09 08:11 PM
                        mission-criticalMichael S2009/02/10 05:20 AM
                          mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 07:26 AM
                            mission-criticalMichael S2009/02/10 08:01 AM
                              mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 01:36 PM
                            mission-criticalsomeone2009/02/10 09:05 AM
                              mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 01:22 PM
                                mission-criticalZt2009/02/22 04:54 PM
                          mission-criticalanon2009/02/10 10:41 PM
                        mission-criticalEduardoS2009/02/10 01:46 PM
                          mission-criticalDean Kent2009/02/10 02:31 PM
                        mission-criticalslacker2009/02/10 07:30 PM
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            Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/07 01:15 AM
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                Sun and x86 server differentiationmax2009/02/07 03:30 AM
                Sun and x86 server differentiationsomeone2009/02/07 10:19 AM
                  Sun and x86 server differentiationLinus Torvalds2009/02/07 10:44 AM
                Sun and x86 server differentiationRagingDragon2009/02/07 06:09 PM
                  Sun and x86 server differentiationMichael S2009/02/08 05:05 AM
                    Sun and x86 server differentiationRagingDragon2009/02/10 12:03 AM
                    Sun and x86 server differentiationJesper Frimann2009/02/10 12:51 AM
                      Sun and x86 server differentiationAlex Jones2009/02/10 01:43 PM
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              Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/08 09:23 AM
          missing the big pictureAM2009/02/18 06:43 AM
            missing the big pictureMichael S2009/02/18 08:42 AM
              missing the big pictureAM2009/02/18 09:03 AM
        Why the platform focus?mpx2009/02/06 12:47 PM
          Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.mpx2009/02/06 04:48 PM
            Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.Paul2009/02/07 02:56 PM
              z series?Michael S2009/02/07 03:12 PM
              Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.someone else2009/02/24 04:37 AM
                Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.EduardoS2009/02/24 06:55 AM
                  Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.someone else2009/02/25 01:55 AM
                    Itanium - slowest and most obsolete server CPU family in the world, NOW.Michael S2009/02/25 02:27 AM
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        Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/06 02:10 PM
          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/06 02:40 PM
            Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/06 02:51 PM
            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/06 02:58 PM
              Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/07 09:26 AM
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                  Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/07 10:40 AM
                    Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/07 12:24 PM
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                        Why the platform focus?max2009/02/08 04:57 AM
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                  Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/24 09:45 AM
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                      Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/24 01:51 PM
                        Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/25 12:04 AM
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                          Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/25 09:17 AM
                            Why the platform focus?someone2009/02/25 09:55 AM
                              has anyone seen Tukwila silicon?anon2009/02/25 10:38 AM
                              Why the platform focus?Linus Torvalds2009/02/25 11:05 AM
                                Why the platform focus?slacker2009/02/25 01:11 PM
                                Why the platform focus?a reader2009/02/26 09:11 PM
                                  Why the platform focus?rcf2009/02/27 01:32 PM
                                    Why the platform focus?max2009/02/27 02:11 PM
                                      Why the platform focus?rcf2009/02/27 03:50 PM
                            Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/25 04:30 PM
                            $40M sale to $16M companybob2009/02/25 08:25 PM
                              $40M sale to $16M companyRichard Cownie2009/02/26 12:21 PM
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                    Why the platform focus?savantu2009/02/24 12:20 PM
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                            Put me down for $500 that Poulson doesn't arrive earlier than Q4/2011 (NT)slacker2009/02/25 12:39 PM
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                            Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 08:53 PM
                              Why the platform focus?bob2009/02/25 09:00 PM
                                Please try to keep up (NT)anon2009/02/25 09:49 PM
                              Why the platform focus?Doug Siebert2009/02/26 12:09 AM
                                Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/26 01:12 AM
                                Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/26 02:16 AM
                                  Why the platform focus?James2009/02/26 06:09 AM
                                    sufficiently intimate with the OSMichael S2009/02/26 06:29 AM
                                      sufficiently intimate with the OSanon2009/02/27 01:01 AM
                                      sufficiently intimate with the OSHoward Chu2009/02/27 01:37 AM
                      Why the platform focus?Michael S2009/02/25 02:02 AM
                        Why the platform focus?anon2009/02/25 03:07 AM
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                  Intels financial statusVincent Diepeveen2009/02/25 12:02 PM
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        Why the platform focus?Default2009/02/06 09:57 AM
          Why the platform focus?Vincent Diepeveen2009/02/06 10:59 AM
          Why the platform focus?RagingDragon2009/02/07 06:43 PM
  Tukwila Update - article onlineVincent Diepeveen2009/02/05 09:11 AM
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