wacky C++ features

Article: Hot Chips XXI Preview
By: JasonB (no.delete@this.spam.com), August 27, 2009 9:33 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
I have some programming waiting to get done as well, so I'll try to be brief. :-)

Richard Cownie (tich@pobox.com) on 8/27/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>As for the "standard" crapola, you're perfectly willing
>to use hash_map<> even though it is *not* in the standard.
>It probably should have been from the start, but it isn't.

The issue was never whether you had to restrict yourself to the standard (the standard libraries don't have a lot of API's necessary for modern applications, so you really can't if you want to have a windowing UI (we use MFC), 3D graphics (we use OpenGL), threading (our own routines on top of MFC, but Boost and/or OpenMP would also work), etc.) but whether you assume things about the behaviour of the standard library (or any library you don't control the implementation of, for that matter) when specifically warned not to.

>>Look at reinterpret_cast: that has no real place in most application-level
>>code, but you couldn't write system-level code without it.
>
>Of course you could: you can do it with a union,

Reading from a union member other than the last one you assigned to is unspecified.

The only exception is when your union contains objects that have common initial elements, in which case you can safely read or write those particular elements through any of the objects that contain them -- but that's useless for using it to implement reinterpret_cast.

>or by
>taking the address of the thing and casting it as a
>pointer to the type you want. That's two ways to do
>(both of which would work all the way back to K&R C).

That shouln't even compile unless you use reinterpret_cast or a C-style cast, and the latter is cheating because it will do the same as reinterpret_cast so you're still using it anyway, only now you're using it on the pointers rather than the data you're trying to convert.

And even then if you actually try to dereference the pointer to the type you want the result can still be undefined if the type you want is anything other than [u]char. (Think about what happens if the alignment restrictions on the type you want are more onerous than the source type.)

>>I consider checked exceptions the "export" equivalent for >Java -- something that
>>sounds good on paper but really needed a few years >experience in writing large programs before committing to.
>
>Back around 1984, I worked with some ex-Xerox PARC people
>for a while, who had experience with early code using
>exceptions on what was it ? The Alto or Dorado ?
>Anyway, they'd been on the bleeding edge. And what I heard
>was that the number 1 problem on those systems was programse
>crashing with "uncaught exception". That gave me a
>negative view of the whole idea from the start.

Actually, that's one of the good things about exceptions, and goes to something you said before -- better to have an error noticed immediately rather than silently ignored. Forget to handle an exception somewhere in your code and, under Windows at least, the very first time you trigger it the OS will tell you about it in no uncertain terms. Forget to check the return value of a function and it could be ages before the consequences hit home.

The issue I was alluding to with checked exceptions was the idea of declaring exactly what exceptions a routine can throw as part of its interface. Intuitively, this seems like a good idea, because the exceptions a routine can throw really are just as much a part of its interface as the return value is. Even better, the compiler can actually check at compile time that every exception is being handled. It's brilliant.

Except it turns out that it doesn't scale and it's a real PITA to maintain. Java programmers either end up using very general exception specifications (saying not much more than "this routine throws some sort of exception but I'm not going to be more explicit than that") or using unchecked exceptions (which don't have to be declared) because the overhead of maintaining all those exception specifications becomes significant as the code grows. Imagine adding one new exception at a very low level that you don't want to handle until the top level, and having to update the signature of every method in between to include the new exception...

The reason C++ dodged this bullet was that although it has exception specifications like Java does, the default behaviour, if no specification is given, is to assume that any exception can be thrown, rather than none. This was necessary to cope with all that existing code out there. So nobody uses them (except in the very rare case where you really want to say no exception can possibly be thrown, like with a swap() routine, which is a necessary precondition for exception-safe code) and we therefore missed the whole experience.

>>Read what I wrote. If you aren't using objects to manage >resources then you aren't using RAII.
>
>OK, so we're not. And we can't guarantee that. Actually,
>no-one can *guarantee* it, because there's no way to check
>it automatically. So now what ?

Well, one option could be to search through all your code looking for the functions you use to acquire resources, and either replace them with C++ equivalents that do implement RAII, or use scopeguard.

But that's besides the point. It's a tool. You can use it to achieve what you are looking for, but to do that you need to use it. If you have a problem caused by not using the tool, then it's not the tool's fault, and it doesn't contradict my statement about the benefits of using that tool.

If you really want to realise the benefits then using it has to become part of the culture because unless C-style interfaces are deprecated and warned against by the compiler (which would probably annoy the heck out of people using them extensively, like yourself) that's the only way the tool will be used.

>>You can always create an object to manage a resource.
>
>Yeah, you *can*. And you *can* write a large program in
>assembly language that always uses all its global variables
>with the right types. It's just damn hard, because no
>tools enforce the constraint. Whereas strongly-typed
>languages make it easy. Rules without tools are pretty
>weak (you can make up for that weakness by hiring really
>good people and applying good management practices, but
>those are tricky problems in themselves).

The thing is that resources don't come from nowhere, you acquire them somehow. In your case you have been using C APIs (e.g. malloc, fopen, etc.). C++ already has objects that can do the same thing, and all the ones I can think of release the resource in the destructor if it hasn't already been released explicitly. MS followed the same approach with MFC. If you use C++ APIs then you get the benefit automatically; if you want to take advantage of C++'s backwards compatibility with C then you don't get the benefit, but it seems a little unfair to blame C++ for that and equate not using C APIs in C++ programs with writing a large program in assembly language.

>>In case you're not using it already, here's a slightly modified one from the original: http://www.zete.org/people/jlehrer/scopeguard.h
>>. It has features that aren't in the one in Boost.
>
>Thanks. It's a good trick, and I'll consider using it
>in my own code.

I suspect it would do you even more good than me because searching through our code I can only actually see one use of it (to manage a manually-allocated buffer passed to a Win32 routine) and I realise we could have simply used a vector for that anyway.

But if we were using more C API's I'd definitely be using it then.

Anyway, if you haven't already seen it, this is the original article with motivating examples:

http://www.ddj.com/cpp/184403758

The trick to avoid virtual function overheads was neat.

To me the main benefit is resource management (i.e. using object destruction to release resources) rather than implementing transactional semantics (using object destruction to undo an operation unless told not to) but the same tool does both.

Solution 1 is what you need to do in Java, which is why I find Java's "simplicity" to be illusory.

The explanation for the modifications in the one I linked to is here:

http://www.zete.org/people/jlehrer/scopeguard.html
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                                                                                                          Encapsulationanon2009/09/03 10:05 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulation?2009/09/03 11:38 AM
                                                                                                          EncapsulationAndi Kleen2009/09/04 01:41 AM
                                                                                                            Encapsulationanon2009/09/04 07:24 AM
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                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/24 12:34 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/23 09:46 PM
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                                                                                            limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 09:27 AM
                                                                                              limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 08:55 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 11:22 PM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/21 12:15 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 04:47 AM
                                                                                              limits of sorting?2009/08/20 11:42 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:51 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/21 08:11 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 08:38 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingdmsc2009/08/20 07:56 PM
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                                                          limits of sortingrwessel2009/09/08 02:52 PM
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                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyrwessel2009/09/08 10:04 PM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/09 04:56 AM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/09 09:10 AM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/10 05:39 AM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/10 08:05 AM
                                                                    maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyPotatoswatter2009/09/10 01:23 PM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencydmsc2009/09/13 08:04 AM
                                                      limits of sortingPotatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 06:07 PM
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                                                          indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 01:01 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/22 07:25 AM
                                                          limits of sortingPotatoswatter2009/08/22 08:45 AM
                                                          limits of sortingDavid Kanter2009/08/22 10:16 AM
                                                            limits of sortingJouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:01 PM
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                                                    Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 02:53 PM
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                                                    How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 04:23 PM
                                                      How much IPCMatt Sayler2009/08/18 06:09 PM
                                                      How much IPC?2009/08/18 11:59 PM
                                  nick's testcasea reader2009/08/17 05:47 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 10:00 AM
                                  Explicit dependency chainsDavid Kanter2009/09/30 07:56 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 10:00 AM
                              How much IPChobold2009/08/17 06:38 AM
                            How much IPCanon2009/08/16 09:59 PM
                            Speeing Up Single ThreadsTruePath2009/09/27 08:58 AM
                      How much IPCanon2009/08/15 08:01 PM
                        How much IPCEduardoS2009/08/16 07:06 AM
                        How much IPCsJ2009/08/16 09:48 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 03:26 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/14 04:04 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 03:43 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 04:08 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 04:33 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/22 08:57 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJukka Larja2009/08/22 11:04 PM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 12:33 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/22 12:51 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 10:56 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/22 11:38 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/23 04:05 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/23 04:28 AM
                          Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 06:48 AM
                            Programming LarrabeeEduardoS2009/08/23 07:41 AM
                              Programming Larrabeeanon2009/08/23 08:29 AM
                            Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 07:47 AM
                              Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/23 09:11 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/24 12:49 AM
                              Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 09:59 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/24 12:44 AM
                                Programming Larrabeehobold2009/08/24 06:41 AM
                                  Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/24 08:15 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/24 08:33 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeJukka Larja2009/08/24 10:30 PM
                                      Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/25 02:53 AM
                            Programming Larrabeempx2009/08/25 09:16 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJoe2009/08/24 09:38 AM
            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingGabriele Svelto2009/08/14 04:35 AM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 09:18 AM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/14 05:34 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 07:30 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 08:23 AM
                improving NetburstAM2009/08/15 02:36 AM
                  improving Netburstanon2009/08/15 08:10 AM
                    improving NetburstEuronymous2009/08/15 09:35 AM
                    improving NetburstMichael S2009/08/15 02:18 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 04:10 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 10:46 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 10:39 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingslacker2009/08/26 05:50 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 09:12 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 09:45 AM
                          Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingsomeone2009/08/26 11:29 AM
                            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingDavid Kanter2009/08/26 11:47 AM
          Not necessarilyDaniel Bizó2009/08/14 03:53 AM
        new POWER7 info ..Thu Nguyen2009/08/25 04:05 AM
          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 06:47 AM
            new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/25 07:50 AM
              new POWER7 info ..G Webb2009/08/26 12:49 AM
            new POWER7 info ..mpx2009/08/25 08:36 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 09:16 AM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/27 09:18 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..Linus Torvalds2009/08/27 11:53 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 01:00 PM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 04:21 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..David Kanter2009/08/27 09:32 PM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 08:45 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 05:00 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 06:51 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 07:44 AM
                          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 08:10 AM
                        Non Autopar submissions for NehalemIlleglWpns2009/08/28 10:41 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for NehalemDavid Kanter2009/08/28 11:07 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for Nehalemsomeone2009/08/28 12:00 PM
          new POWER7 info ..mas2009/08/26 12:25 AM
            An EV8 lite? (NT)anon2009/08/26 09:21 AM
              An EV8 lite? => Piranha?M.2009/08/30 04:54 AM
            new POWER7 info ..Mark Roulo2009/08/27 06:51 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 07:03 AM
                new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 09:55 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 11:58 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 04:11 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..Gabriele Svelto2009/08/28 12:17 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 05:27 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 09:07 AM
                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 11:15 AM
                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 11:39 AM
                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 01:55 PM
                              OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 03:16 PM
                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 03:44 PM
                                  Atom uarchDavid Kanter2009/08/28 08:19 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 08:07 PM
                              OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 04:18 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 01:55 AM
                                  OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 07:21 AM
                                    OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 09:14 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 09:56 AM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 10:08 AM
                                      OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:27 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 04:50 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 07:17 PM
                                          OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/30 12:07 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerJonathan Kang2009/09/01 05:44 AM
                                              OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/09/01 04:21 PM
                                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/01 05:53 PM
                                                  OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 02:27 AM
                                                    OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/02 08:46 AM
                                                      OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 04:52 PM
                                                    Define "emulate" (NT)Michael S2009/09/02 11:44 PM
                                                      Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 12:33 AM
                                                        Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 04:46 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Adrian2009/09/03 10:45 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 02:20 PM
                                                            Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 10:41 PM
                                                              Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/04 03:30 AM
                                                  low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 02:32 PM
                                                    low power ARM chipsGabriele Svelto2009/10/31 04:05 PM
                                                      low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 04:45 PM
                                                        low power ARM chipst2009/10/31 05:21 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 10:07 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 12:40 PM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 05:03 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 07:13 PM
                                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/30 07:35 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 02:32 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerMatt Sayler2009/08/31 01:38 PM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 12:07 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:44 AM
                                  TTMMichael S2009/08/29 12:24 PM
                                    TTMFoo_2009/08/29 01:40 PM
                                      TTMMichael S2009/08/29 02:10 PM
                                        TTManon2009/08/29 07:33 PM
                                          TTMJukka Larja2009/08/29 09:49 PM
                                            TTManon2009/08/30 06:07 AM
                                              TTMJukka Larja2009/08/30 09:31 PM
                                                Area, power and AtomDavid Kanter2009/08/30 10:36 PM
                                                  Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 12:18 AM
                                                    Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 08:44 AM
                                                      Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 12:19 PM
                                                        Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 02:53 PM
                                                          Area, power and Atomanonymous2009/08/31 04:17 PM
                                                        Area, power and AtomGabriele Svelto2009/08/31 03:41 PM
                                                          64-bit disabled AtomsFoo_2009/09/02 04:38 AM
                                                            64-bit disabled AtomsRobert David Graham2009/09/02 12:56 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanon2009/09/02 02:14 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanonymous2009/09/02 04:30 PM
                                                TTMMichael S2009/08/30 11:49 PM
                                                  TTMJukka Larja2009/08/31 11:23 PM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 06:38 AM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 06:40 AM
                                        TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 09:50 AM
                                          TTMPaul2009/08/30 09:54 AM
                                            TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 10:16 AM
                                        TTMFoo_2009/09/02 04:31 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerRob Thorpe2009/08/30 09:19 AM
                                OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:16 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerJukka Larja2009/08/29 09:40 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/30 12:04 AM
                          OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/08/28 05:30 PM
                            OOOE and cache/mem sizesLinus Torvalds2009/08/31 10:53 PM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 04:15 AM
                                OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/01 08:35 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Jouni Osmala2009/09/01 08:57 AM
                                    OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/02 01:34 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/02 05:35 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/02 06:19 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 09:43 PM
                                        OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/03 02:52 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 07:34 AM
                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/04 02:04 AM
                                              OOOE impactsDavid Kanter2009/09/04 10:12 AM
                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/06 12:16 PM
                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/07 03:47 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/07 06:03 AM
                                                    Does IBM lie about PPC603 being OoO chip?AM2009/09/08 03:13 AM
                                                      No, but...Michael S2009/09/08 07:05 AM
                                                        No, but...hobold2009/09/09 05:09 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJS2009/09/07 06:34 AM
                                                    Are Sandpile and others wrong about 0.28 um?AM2009/09/08 03:12 AM
                                                    OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 06:43 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/07 07:48 AM
                                                    OOOE costsDavid Kanter2009/09/07 12:07 PM
                                                    OOOE impactsAM2009/09/08 03:11 AM
                                                      OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/10 01:53 AM
                                                        OOOE impactsAM2009/09/11 04:35 AM
                                                          OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/11 08:38 AM
                                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/12 05:06 AM
                                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/12 11:36 PM
                                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/14 04:39 AM
                                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/14 06:18 AM
                                                                    if-ex distanceAM2009/09/15 05:16 AM
                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/19 03:54 AM
                                                                      small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/19 09:51 PM
                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/20 06:54 AM
                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 01:16 PM
                                                                            small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/20 04:51 PM
                                                                              small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 09:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/21 06:59 AM
                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/21 03:14 AM
                                                                              small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/21 10:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumAM2009/09/22 03:01 AM
                                                                                  small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/22 11:31 PM
                                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/23 08:35 AM
                                                                                      small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/23 10:31 PM
                                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/24 12:13 AM
                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/24 09:39 PM
                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/25 05:18 AM
                                                                                              Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/25 07:14 AM
                                                                                                Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/25 11:24 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsWilco2009/09/25 03:18 PM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 09:12 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:54 AM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 09:05 AM
                                                                                                      Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 09:16 AM
                                                                                                Agree, with very minor change.Jouni Osmala2009/09/25 09:37 PM
                                                                                                Back to bitsAM2009/09/26 06:16 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 09:13 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionDavid Kanter2009/09/25 12:23 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 05:55 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/25 11:33 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 05:50 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 02:16 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 04:58 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 04:07 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 03:43 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/29 12:45 AM
                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/30 03:13 AM
                                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 01:34 AM
                                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/01 04:05 AM
                                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/02 12:38 AM
                                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/03 07:19 AM
                                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 03:38 AM
                                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/04 08:27 AM
                                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 11:48 PM
                                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/05 07:13 AM
                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/05 11:36 PM
                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/06 04:37 AM
                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/07 03:15 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachinganon2009/10/07 12:39 PM
                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/08 03:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 04:10 AM
                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/09 05:40 AM
                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 09:02 PM
                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/09 11:24 PM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/10 10:50 PM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/12 02:02 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/12 10:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/13 04:06 AM
                                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/13 11:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/14 03:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/14 08:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/15 04:22 AM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/12 02:23 AM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingDean Kent2009/10/12 12:25 PM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/13 02:11 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionSeni2009/09/26 06:26 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionWilco2009/09/26 08:08 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 02:18 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 05:12 AM
                                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/24 10:04 PM
                                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/25 05:04 AM
                                                                                            extra stage in EV6AM2009/09/26 06:29 AM
                                                    PPC603 does OoOEhobold2009/09/08 05:40 AM
                                                  OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 05:39 AM
                                                    EV6AM2009/09/09 04:33 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateSeni2009/09/02 09:11 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateLinus Torvalds2009/09/02 06:48 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 11:55 PM
                                            OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 12:44 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 01:02 AM
                                                OOOE and ItaniumAM2009/09/03 01:27 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/03 03:41 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/03 01:12 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 02:10 AM
                                            POWER6 skewed pipelinePaul A. Clayton2009/09/03 11:22 AM
                                              POWER6 skewed pipelineAnon42009/09/03 07:00 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateMr. Camel2009/09/03 03:40 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateRichard Cownie2009/09/03 06:42 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/01 09:01 AM
                                    OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/02 01:32 AM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/02 07:49 AM
                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 01:40 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 01:45 AM
                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 03:18 AM
                                              LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 03:55 AM
                                                LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 04:28 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 05:29 AM
                                                    Amount of cache per core matters,and mem bandwith too (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/09/03 07:44 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54rwessel2009/09/03 02:31 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:24 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 06:40 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54a reader2009/09/03 09:20 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:57 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/03 02:30 PM
                                                      LRB choice of P54David Kanter2009/09/03 04:38 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 08:16 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 06:07 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:20 AM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 08:13 AM
                                                          LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/04 08:38 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/05 04:36 AM
                                                              LRB choice of P54Anon2009/09/05 02:44 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 12:12 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:18 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/04 08:18 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 11:53 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/05 04:06 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 09:14 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54 - Layout?Anonymous2009/09/03 02:40 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54 - Layout?anonymous2009/09/03 03:54 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Jukka Larja2009/09/03 09:58 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54mpx2009/09/04 04:07 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 02:02 AM
                                        OOOE and pipe length etc.Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 01:40 AM
                                      Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/03 04:26 PM
                                        Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/03 05:14 PM
                                          Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/04 10:05 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 10:59 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/05 09:58 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386James2009/09/07 03:15 AM
                                              Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/07 07:44 PM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Michael S2009/09/03 05:42 PM
                                        LRB coreAM2009/09/04 02:09 AM
                                          LRB coreMichael S2009/09/04 05:07 AM
                                            LRB coreanon2009/09/04 08:27 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 10:12 AM
                                                LRB coreanon2009/09/05 11:03 PM
                                                  reasons for split I/D L1 cachesMichael S2009/09/06 04:10 AM
                                                    reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/06 06:32 AM
                                                      reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/06 10:35 AM
                                                        reasons for split I/D L1 cachesmegol2009/09/06 03:39 PM
                                                          reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/07 04:20 AM
                                                            reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/07 06:25 AM
                                                              cache hinting?2009/09/07 07:10 AM
                                                                cache hintinganon2009/09/07 07:35 AM
                                                                  cache hinting?2009/09/07 09:10 AM
                                                                    cache hintinganon2009/09/07 09:49 AM
                                                                      cache hinting?2009/09/07 10:37 AM
                                              Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 01:38 PM
                                                Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/06 11:15 PM
                                                  Split and unified cachesMichael S2009/09/07 12:40 AM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 02:24 AM
                                                  Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/07 12:51 AM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 02:13 AM
                                            LRB coreAM2009/09/05 12:08 AM
                                            LRB coreLinus Torvalds2009/09/05 10:47 AM
                                          LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 01:23 PM
                                            LRB coreAnon2009/09/04 06:32 PM
                                              LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 10:15 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 10:21 AM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesa reader2009/09/01 09:19 AM
                                OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 09:43 AM
                      snapdraon?Michael S2009/08/28 06:10 AM
                        snapdraon?a reader2009/08/28 08:51 AM
                          Thanks (NT)Michael S2009/08/29 12:53 PM
                        snapdraon?Paul2009/08/28 01:12 PM
              new POWER7 info ..EduardoS2009/08/27 03:41 PM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/28 05:03 AM
                  Single threaded performanceDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:52 AM
  Hot Chips XXI Preview onlinehobold2009/08/13 07:30 AM
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How do you spell purple?