wacky C++ features

Article: Hot Chips XXI Preview
By: JasonB (no.delete@this.spam.com), August 28, 2009 5:55 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Richard Cownie (tich@pobox.com) on 8/28/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>JasonB (no@spam.com) on 8/27/09 wrote:
>---------------------------
>
>>>Of course you could: you can do it with a union,
>>
>>Reading from a union member other than the last one you assigned to is unspecified.
>
>Really ? I think that's another example of the
>uselessness of standards.

It can't help it. All of those undefined and unspecified things are in there precisely because C and C++ are designed to allow the languages to be used to write code on a wide range of platforms without any "emulation" required, and some platforms don't support that particular operation.

They are "portable" in the sense that you can use them to write "native" code on any platform.

Languages like Java are portable in a completely different sense -- they allow you to write code for precisely one platform, and then require a sophisticated runtime to convert any real platform into that particular virtual platform. They can make any guarantees they damn well choose -- the only downside is that on some platforms it will be incredibly slow.

>Given that the layout of
>fields in structures is fully specified, there's
>hardly any wiggle room for the implementation ...

The amount of padding is not "fully specified", nor are the contents of pad bytes, so at the very least reading from a different union member to the one you last wrote could involve bytes that are undefined.

There is also no guarantee that the sequence of bits as seen by the union member you are attempting to read with represent a legal value for that member (what the C standard calls a "trap representation") and accessing it on some hardware may cause the program to terminate with an error message -- hence "undefined behaviour" in the standard. However, in this particular aspect, the behaviour is exactly as defined as using reinterpret_cast so it's neither better nor worse.

>>That shouln't even compile unless you use reinterpret_cast or a C-style cast,
>
>Well, a C-style cast is valid standard C++, and that's
>what I was thinking of.

It is, but my point was about the usefulness of reinterpret_cast and saying you could eliminate it by using a C-style cast defeats the purpose if the C-style case is a reinterpret_cast in that case.

The C++ style casts all represent distinct well-defined subsets of what the C-style cast can do -- the point being that a C-style cast can be any of them and sometimes you want to be explicit about what you're trying to do and get an error if you made a mistake. The C-style cast will always work. Because of that goal, if the C++ style casts didn't represent, between them, everything the C-style cast can do, then there'd still be instances that require you to fall back on the C-style cast and be once again exposed to all it's power; reinterpret_cast is required to encapsulate that particular aspect of the C-style cast's behaviour.

So when I say there are instances where reinterpret_cast is required even though they are very rare, that implies the reinterpret_cast behaviour of C-style casts is included in my observation.

>>And even then if you actually try to dereference the pointer to the type you want
>>the result can still be undefined if the type you want is anything other than [u]char.
>>(Think about what happens if the alignment restrictions on the type you want are more onerous than the source type.)
>
>Yes, but you can enforce sufficient alignment.

Then it's no longer a drop-in replacement, it requires extra work. If extra work isn't an obstacle then I can use memcpy() instead.

>And the
>fact that the result is undefined is sort of the *point*
>of reinterpret_cast<>, isn't it ?

My point was that you've added an extra layer of "undefinedness" unrelated to whether the reinterpret_cast itself would have been undefined or not.

Incidentally, you can perfectly legally use reinterpret_cast to store pointers in "large enough" integers (for serialisation, or for constructing a hash value for a hash container) so not every use of it results in undefined or unspecified behaviour.

>>Actually, that's one of the good things about exceptions, and goes to something
>>you said before -- better to have an error noticed immediately rather than silently
>>ignored.
>
>I don't know. Too many people use the presence of the
>exception mechanism as an excuse for failing to design
>an error-handling strategy - leading to the symptoms seen
>on Alto/Dorado.

Well, I can't comment about the number of people who get a false sense of security because exceptions are available, but it seems to me at least that they'd be exactly the same sort of people who would ignore error return codes. I can't imagine any false sense of security lasting very long if they're actually using exceptions.

Maybe force them to write Java for a while -- Java uses exceptions for even routine errors, so any notion that you can write code without worrying about errors because exceptions are used will be quickly dispelled.

>At the technical level, exceptions look
>like a good idea; it's when you look at the unintended
>consequences on typical systems that it gets ugly.

It seems to me that ignorance of the issues surrounding the use of exceptions is no reason to rule out a good idea. Education is the solution to that.

I'm more concerned about intrinsic problems that are discovered once something is used in real systems, like the overheads of managing checked exceptions, which no amount of education can fix.

Likewise, the intrinsic difficulty to managing errors well in a large system without exceptions was precisely the motivation for inventing exceptions in the first place. They are designed to make error management easier, not to make the problem go away entirely. As I said, education seems to be called for, not avoiding a tool because people have misconceptions about it.

>Always bear in mind that the majority of developers are
>not very good, because there's a constant inflow of
>new developers of varying intelligence and zero experience,
>and a constant outflow of very good developers getting
>"promoted" into management, while mediocre developers
>keep on writing code. And I've seen a lot of buggy code,
>but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone losing their
>job for writing buggy code ... Particular organizations
>avoid these traps by careful hiring and management, but
>the general picture is bleak.

The Peter Principle? This is why I think technical people who make good managers should be preferred over lawyers and accountants in technical companies -- when the manager is not equipped to judge the technical abilities of their subordinates, it's easy for the reward system to be distorted by the more "political" employees, leaving the really good workers feeling cheated and uninspired. It's also why I think that management positions should not be the only way of rewarding particularly good employees -- if someone is most valuable as a developer then keep rewarding them for that.

I'm speaking as someone who was a developer, then became R&D manager, and finally managing director, and who still writes a lot of code (preferring it to the administrative side, to be honest) and whose second-highest-paid employee in the company has no subordinates or management responsibility whatsoever.

I'd have serious reservations about the long-term competitiveness of a company that persists in hiring poor quality staff and vigorously implements the Peter Principle to ensure that the best staff get promoted away from their area of expertise. Implementing exception safety is probably the least of their problems.

>Really, it's fine that people are figuring out good
>design patterns and tricks like ScopeGuard. But imposing
>new constraints on old codebases is just not going to
>happen very often (unless it's done in ways that can
>be automated).

The approach we took was to do it one little bit at a time. We never went back through the entire codebase and rewrote it from scratch, but if we happened to be working on something then we would modify it if required. If we got caught by something then we would fix that problem. Gradually, over a period of several years, it got better. Adding uses of scopeguard or replacing all uses of FILE with stream objects implementing RAII makes your code just that little bit more robust and easier to maintain even if it doesn't fix the entire thing overnight.

Something as simple as telling programmers to start using the C++ equivalent that implements RAII instead of the C version will automatically have them writing more robust code without them even knowing it.
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                                                                        limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 10:33 AM
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                                                                                        You work on EDA right Richard?David Kanter2009/08/19 08:26 AM
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                                                                                              You work on EDA right Richard?Rob Thorpe2009/08/20 04:10 PM
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                                                                                      limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 11:25 PM
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                                                                                        limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/19 07:12 AM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 07:46 AM
                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/19 08:43 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 07:47 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 08:20 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 11:12 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/21 02:08 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 05:15 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/22 06:24 PM
                                                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/22 07:27 PM
                                                                                                        limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/22 08:39 PM
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                                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/23 05:53 AM
                                                                                                            limits of sortinganonymous2009/08/23 11:42 AM
                                                                                                              useful link, thanksRichard Cownie2009/08/23 05:23 PM
                                                                                                            limits of sorting?2009/09/04 04:05 AM
                                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/23 09:26 AM
                                                                                                          wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/24 07:13 AM
                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresa reader2009/08/24 09:59 PM
                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/25 03:18 AM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresa reader2009/08/25 07:04 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/25 10:21 PM
                                                                                                                    wacky C++ featuresnone2009/08/26 05:47 AM
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                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresAndi Kleen2009/08/25 12:06 AM
                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/25 03:10 AM
                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresOctoploid2009/08/25 03:40 AM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/25 05:15 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresAndi Kleen2009/08/25 07:58 AM
                                                                                                                    thanksRichard Cownie2009/08/25 08:07 AM
                                                                                                                      thanksAndi Kleen2009/08/25 11:28 AM
                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresanon2009/08/25 03:34 PM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresAndi Kleen2009/08/25 10:25 PM
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                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/25 02:32 AM
                                                                                                                exceptiona reader2009/08/25 07:32 AM
                                                                                                                  exceptionRichard Cownie2009/08/25 07:57 AM
                                                                                                                    exceptionPotatoswatter2009/08/25 08:30 AM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/25 08:56 PM
                                                                                                                  correctionJasonB2009/08/25 09:47 PM
                                                                                                                    correctionc++2009/08/26 09:53 AM
                                                                                                                      correctionJasonB2009/08/26 07:48 PM
                                                                                                                      (new char[10]) does not have array type (NT)Potatoswatter2009/08/27 06:27 AM
                                                                                                                      correctionPotatoswatter2009/08/27 07:52 AM
                                                                                                                        correctionc++2009/08/27 09:29 AM
                                                                                                                          comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 09:51 AM
                                                                                                                            comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 11:28 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/26 09:17 AM
                                                                                                                    wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/26 07:46 PM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/27 09:41 AM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 09:33 PM
                                                                                                                          wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 01:24 AM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 01:27 AM
                                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresMichael S2009/08/28 06:05 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/28 06:45 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 07:50 AM
                                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 04:56 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 05:55 PM
                                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 07:44 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 04:24 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/26 03:22 PM
                                                                                                                    wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/26 06:47 PM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresJukka Larja2009/08/27 12:03 AM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 01:17 AM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/27 03:26 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 06:31 PM
                                                                                                                          wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/28 03:25 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 06:20 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 09:56 PM
                                                                                                  Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:33 AM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureMichael S2009/08/21 08:07 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/21 08:33 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 04:12 AM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/21 11:18 PM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/21 11:45 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/22 12:48 AM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 04:25 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureGian-Carlo Pascutto2009/08/22 07:02 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 08:13 AM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux culturerwessel2009/08/24 03:09 PM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 05:28 PM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/22 06:22 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 06:52 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/22 07:47 PM
                                                                                                        EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/03 04:49 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulationanon2009/09/03 10:05 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulation?2009/09/03 11:38 AM
                                                                                                          EncapsulationAndi Kleen2009/09/04 01:41 AM
                                                                                                            Encapsulationanon2009/09/04 07:24 AM
                                                                                                            EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/04 07:34 AM
                                                                                                              EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 03:28 AM
                                                                                                                EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/07 04:04 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culture?2009/09/03 11:51 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 10:36 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/23 04:23 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 08:31 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/24 12:10 AM
                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJukka Larja2009/08/24 10:13 PM
                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/24 11:35 PM
                                                                                                                Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/25 03:04 AM
                                                                                                                  Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/25 11:48 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 08:28 AM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 10:31 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 08:43 AM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/26 01:48 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 03:28 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 08:06 PM
                                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/27 03:44 AM
                                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRob Thorpe2009/08/27 05:51 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 09:07 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 09:44 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/24 12:34 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/23 09:46 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 07:59 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 09:27 AM
                                                                                              limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 08:55 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 11:22 PM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/21 12:15 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 04:47 AM
                                                                                              limits of sorting?2009/08/20 11:42 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:51 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/21 08:11 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 08:38 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingdmsc2009/08/20 07:56 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 08:20 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/20 08:09 AM
                                                                              limits of sortingAaron Spink2009/08/20 12:19 AM
                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 01:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 07:12 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/18 07:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingrwessel2009/09/08 02:52 PM
                                                            maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyEmil2009/09/08 07:06 PM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyrwessel2009/09/08 10:04 PM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/09 04:56 AM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/09 09:10 AM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/10 05:39 AM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/10 08:05 AM
                                                                    maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyPotatoswatter2009/09/10 01:23 PM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencydmsc2009/09/13 08:04 AM
                                                      limits of sortingPotatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 06:07 PM
                                                        indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Potatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 06:12 PM
                                                          indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 01:01 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/22 07:25 AM
                                                          limits of sortingPotatoswatter2009/08/22 08:45 AM
                                                          limits of sortingDavid Kanter2009/08/22 10:16 AM
                                                            limits of sortingJouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:01 PM
                                                              Oops that was counting sort not bucket sort ;(Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:07 PM
                                                                close enough for my purposeshobold2009/08/22 02:15 PM
                                                            select vs. cmovehobold2009/08/22 02:25 PM
                                              How much IPCGian-Carlo Pascutto2009/08/18 03:25 AM
                                                How much IPCVincent Diepeveen2009/08/19 06:46 AM
                                                  How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/19 09:32 AM
                                              How much IPChobold2009/08/18 04:17 AM
                                                How much IPCMichael S2009/08/18 05:33 AM
                                                  How much IPChobold2009/08/18 07:35 AM
                                              How much IPC?2009/08/18 12:20 PM
                                                How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 12:33 PM
                                                  Nit pickingDavid Kanter2009/08/18 02:17 PM
                                                    Nit picking_Arthur2009/08/18 02:37 PM
                                                      Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 03:02 PM
                                                        Nit pickingS. Rao2009/08/18 05:02 PM
                                                          Nit pickinganon2009/08/19 03:03 AM
                                                    Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 02:53 PM
                                                      Nit pickingJasonB2009/08/18 07:16 PM
                                                  How much IPC?2009/08/18 02:37 PM
                                                    How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 04:23 PM
                                                      How much IPCMatt Sayler2009/08/18 06:09 PM
                                                      How much IPC?2009/08/18 11:59 PM
                                  nick's testcasea reader2009/08/17 05:47 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 10:00 AM
                                  Explicit dependency chainsDavid Kanter2009/09/30 07:56 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 10:00 AM
                              How much IPChobold2009/08/17 06:38 AM
                            How much IPCanon2009/08/16 09:59 PM
                            Speeing Up Single ThreadsTruePath2009/09/27 08:58 AM
                      How much IPCanon2009/08/15 08:01 PM
                        How much IPCEduardoS2009/08/16 07:06 AM
                        How much IPCsJ2009/08/16 09:48 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 03:26 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/14 04:04 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 03:43 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 04:08 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 04:33 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/22 08:57 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJukka Larja2009/08/22 11:04 PM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 12:33 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/22 12:51 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 10:56 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/22 11:38 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/23 04:05 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/23 04:28 AM
                          Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 06:48 AM
                            Programming LarrabeeEduardoS2009/08/23 07:41 AM
                              Programming Larrabeeanon2009/08/23 08:29 AM
                            Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 07:47 AM
                              Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/23 09:11 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/24 12:49 AM
                              Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 09:59 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/24 12:44 AM
                                Programming Larrabeehobold2009/08/24 06:41 AM
                                  Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/24 08:15 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/24 08:33 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeJukka Larja2009/08/24 10:30 PM
                                      Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/25 02:53 AM
                            Programming Larrabeempx2009/08/25 09:16 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJoe2009/08/24 09:38 AM
            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingGabriele Svelto2009/08/14 04:35 AM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 09:18 AM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/14 05:34 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 07:30 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 08:23 AM
                improving NetburstAM2009/08/15 02:36 AM
                  improving Netburstanon2009/08/15 08:10 AM
                    improving NetburstEuronymous2009/08/15 09:35 AM
                    improving NetburstMichael S2009/08/15 02:18 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 04:10 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 10:46 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 10:39 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingslacker2009/08/26 05:50 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 09:12 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 09:45 AM
                          Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingsomeone2009/08/26 11:29 AM
                            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingDavid Kanter2009/08/26 11:47 AM
          Not necessarilyDaniel Bizó2009/08/14 03:53 AM
        new POWER7 info ..Thu Nguyen2009/08/25 04:05 AM
          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 06:47 AM
            new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/25 07:50 AM
              new POWER7 info ..G Webb2009/08/26 12:49 AM
            new POWER7 info ..mpx2009/08/25 08:36 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 09:16 AM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/27 09:18 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..Linus Torvalds2009/08/27 11:53 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 01:00 PM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 04:21 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..David Kanter2009/08/27 09:32 PM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 08:45 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 05:00 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 06:51 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 07:44 AM
                          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 08:10 AM
                        Non Autopar submissions for NehalemIlleglWpns2009/08/28 10:41 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for NehalemDavid Kanter2009/08/28 11:07 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for Nehalemsomeone2009/08/28 12:00 PM
          new POWER7 info ..mas2009/08/26 12:25 AM
            An EV8 lite? (NT)anon2009/08/26 09:21 AM
              An EV8 lite? => Piranha?M.2009/08/30 04:54 AM
            new POWER7 info ..Mark Roulo2009/08/27 06:51 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 07:03 AM
                new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 09:55 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 11:58 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 04:11 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..Gabriele Svelto2009/08/28 12:17 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 05:27 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 09:07 AM
                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 11:15 AM
                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 11:39 AM
                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 01:55 PM
                              OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 03:16 PM
                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 03:44 PM
                                  Atom uarchDavid Kanter2009/08/28 08:19 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 08:07 PM
                              OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 04:18 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 01:55 AM
                                  OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 07:21 AM
                                    OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 09:14 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 09:56 AM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 10:08 AM
                                      OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:27 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 04:50 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 07:17 PM
                                          OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/30 12:07 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerJonathan Kang2009/09/01 05:44 AM
                                              OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/09/01 04:21 PM
                                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/01 05:53 PM
                                                  OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 02:27 AM
                                                    OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/02 08:46 AM
                                                      OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 04:52 PM
                                                    Define "emulate" (NT)Michael S2009/09/02 11:44 PM
                                                      Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 12:33 AM
                                                        Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 04:46 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Adrian2009/09/03 10:45 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 02:20 PM
                                                            Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 10:41 PM
                                                              Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/04 03:30 AM
                                                  low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 02:32 PM
                                                    low power ARM chipsGabriele Svelto2009/10/31 04:05 PM
                                                      low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 04:45 PM
                                                        low power ARM chipst2009/10/31 05:21 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 10:07 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 12:40 PM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 05:03 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 07:13 PM
                                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/30 07:35 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 02:32 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerMatt Sayler2009/08/31 01:38 PM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 12:07 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:44 AM
                                  TTMMichael S2009/08/29 12:24 PM
                                    TTMFoo_2009/08/29 01:40 PM
                                      TTMMichael S2009/08/29 02:10 PM
                                        TTManon2009/08/29 07:33 PM
                                          TTMJukka Larja2009/08/29 09:49 PM
                                            TTManon2009/08/30 06:07 AM
                                              TTMJukka Larja2009/08/30 09:31 PM
                                                Area, power and AtomDavid Kanter2009/08/30 10:36 PM
                                                  Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 12:18 AM
                                                    Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 08:44 AM
                                                      Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 12:19 PM
                                                        Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 02:53 PM
                                                          Area, power and Atomanonymous2009/08/31 04:17 PM
                                                        Area, power and AtomGabriele Svelto2009/08/31 03:41 PM
                                                          64-bit disabled AtomsFoo_2009/09/02 04:38 AM
                                                            64-bit disabled AtomsRobert David Graham2009/09/02 12:56 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanon2009/09/02 02:14 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanonymous2009/09/02 04:30 PM
                                                TTMMichael S2009/08/30 11:49 PM
                                                  TTMJukka Larja2009/08/31 11:23 PM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 06:38 AM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 06:40 AM
                                        TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 09:50 AM
                                          TTMPaul2009/08/30 09:54 AM
                                            TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 10:16 AM
                                        TTMFoo_2009/09/02 04:31 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerRob Thorpe2009/08/30 09:19 AM
                                OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:16 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerJukka Larja2009/08/29 09:40 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/30 12:04 AM
                          OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/08/28 05:30 PM
                            OOOE and cache/mem sizesLinus Torvalds2009/08/31 10:53 PM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 04:15 AM
                                OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/01 08:35 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Jouni Osmala2009/09/01 08:57 AM
                                    OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/02 01:34 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/02 05:35 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/02 06:19 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 09:43 PM
                                        OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/03 02:52 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 07:34 AM
                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/04 02:04 AM
                                              OOOE impactsDavid Kanter2009/09/04 10:12 AM
                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/06 12:16 PM
                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/07 03:47 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/07 06:03 AM
                                                    Does IBM lie about PPC603 being OoO chip?AM2009/09/08 03:13 AM
                                                      No, but...Michael S2009/09/08 07:05 AM
                                                        No, but...hobold2009/09/09 05:09 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJS2009/09/07 06:34 AM
                                                    Are Sandpile and others wrong about 0.28 um?AM2009/09/08 03:12 AM
                                                    OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 06:43 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/07 07:48 AM
                                                    OOOE costsDavid Kanter2009/09/07 12:07 PM
                                                    OOOE impactsAM2009/09/08 03:11 AM
                                                      OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/10 01:53 AM
                                                        OOOE impactsAM2009/09/11 04:35 AM
                                                          OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/11 08:38 AM
                                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/12 05:06 AM
                                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/12 11:36 PM
                                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/14 04:39 AM
                                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/14 06:18 AM
                                                                    if-ex distanceAM2009/09/15 05:16 AM
                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/19 03:54 AM
                                                                      small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/19 09:51 PM
                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/20 06:54 AM
                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 01:16 PM
                                                                            small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/20 04:51 PM
                                                                              small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 09:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/21 06:59 AM
                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/21 03:14 AM
                                                                              small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/21 10:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumAM2009/09/22 03:01 AM
                                                                                  small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/22 11:31 PM
                                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/23 08:35 AM
                                                                                      small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/23 10:31 PM
                                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/24 12:13 AM
                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/24 09:39 PM
                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/25 05:18 AM
                                                                                              Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/25 07:14 AM
                                                                                                Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/25 11:24 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsWilco2009/09/25 03:18 PM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 09:12 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:54 AM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 09:05 AM
                                                                                                      Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 09:16 AM
                                                                                                Agree, with very minor change.Jouni Osmala2009/09/25 09:37 PM
                                                                                                Back to bitsAM2009/09/26 06:16 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 09:13 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionDavid Kanter2009/09/25 12:23 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 05:55 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/25 11:33 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 05:50 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 02:16 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 04:58 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 04:07 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 03:43 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/29 12:45 AM
                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/30 03:13 AM
                                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 01:34 AM
                                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/01 04:05 AM
                                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/02 12:38 AM
                                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/03 07:19 AM
                                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 03:38 AM
                                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/04 08:27 AM
                                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 11:48 PM
                                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/05 07:13 AM
                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/05 11:36 PM
                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/06 04:37 AM
                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/07 03:15 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachinganon2009/10/07 12:39 PM
                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/08 03:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 04:10 AM
                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/09 05:40 AM
                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 09:02 PM
                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/09 11:24 PM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/10 10:50 PM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/12 02:02 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/12 10:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/13 04:06 AM
                                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/13 11:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/14 03:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/14 08:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/15 04:22 AM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/12 02:23 AM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingDean Kent2009/10/12 12:25 PM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/13 02:11 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionSeni2009/09/26 06:26 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionWilco2009/09/26 08:08 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 02:18 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 05:12 AM
                                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/24 10:04 PM
                                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/25 05:04 AM
                                                                                            extra stage in EV6AM2009/09/26 06:29 AM
                                                    PPC603 does OoOEhobold2009/09/08 05:40 AM
                                                  OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 05:39 AM
                                                    EV6AM2009/09/09 04:33 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateSeni2009/09/02 09:11 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateLinus Torvalds2009/09/02 06:48 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 11:55 PM
                                            OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 12:44 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 01:02 AM
                                                OOOE and ItaniumAM2009/09/03 01:27 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/03 03:41 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/03 01:12 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 02:10 AM
                                            POWER6 skewed pipelinePaul A. Clayton2009/09/03 11:22 AM
                                              POWER6 skewed pipelineAnon42009/09/03 07:00 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateMr. Camel2009/09/03 03:40 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateRichard Cownie2009/09/03 06:42 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/01 09:01 AM
                                    OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/02 01:32 AM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/02 07:49 AM
                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 01:40 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 01:45 AM
                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 03:18 AM
                                              LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 03:55 AM
                                                LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 04:28 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 05:29 AM
                                                    Amount of cache per core matters,and mem bandwith too (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/09/03 07:44 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54rwessel2009/09/03 02:31 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:24 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 06:40 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54a reader2009/09/03 09:20 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:57 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/03 02:30 PM
                                                      LRB choice of P54David Kanter2009/09/03 04:38 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 08:16 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 06:07 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:20 AM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 08:13 AM
                                                          LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/04 08:38 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/05 04:36 AM
                                                              LRB choice of P54Anon2009/09/05 02:44 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 12:12 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:18 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/04 08:18 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 11:53 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/05 04:06 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 09:14 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54 - Layout?Anonymous2009/09/03 02:40 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54 - Layout?anonymous2009/09/03 03:54 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Jukka Larja2009/09/03 09:58 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54mpx2009/09/04 04:07 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 02:02 AM
                                        OOOE and pipe length etc.Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 01:40 AM
                                      Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/03 04:26 PM
                                        Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/03 05:14 PM
                                          Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/04 10:05 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 10:59 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/05 09:58 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386James2009/09/07 03:15 AM
                                              Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/07 07:44 PM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Michael S2009/09/03 05:42 PM
                                        LRB coreAM2009/09/04 02:09 AM
                                          LRB coreMichael S2009/09/04 05:07 AM
                                            LRB coreanon2009/09/04 08:27 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 10:12 AM
                                                LRB coreanon2009/09/05 11:03 PM
                                                  reasons for split I/D L1 cachesMichael S2009/09/06 04:10 AM
                                                    reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/06 06:32 AM
                                                      reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/06 10:35 AM
                                                        reasons for split I/D L1 cachesmegol2009/09/06 03:39 PM
                                                          reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/07 04:20 AM
                                                            reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/07 06:25 AM
                                                              cache hinting?2009/09/07 07:10 AM
                                                                cache hintinganon2009/09/07 07:35 AM
                                                                  cache hinting?2009/09/07 09:10 AM
                                                                    cache hintinganon2009/09/07 09:49 AM
                                                                      cache hinting?2009/09/07 10:37 AM
                                              Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 01:38 PM
                                                Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/06 11:15 PM
                                                  Split and unified cachesMichael S2009/09/07 12:40 AM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 02:24 AM
                                                  Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/07 12:51 AM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 02:13 AM
                                            LRB coreAM2009/09/05 12:08 AM
                                            LRB coreLinus Torvalds2009/09/05 10:47 AM
                                          LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 01:23 PM
                                            LRB coreAnon2009/09/04 06:32 PM
                                              LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 10:15 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 10:21 AM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesa reader2009/09/01 09:19 AM
                                OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 09:43 AM
                      snapdraon?Michael S2009/08/28 06:10 AM
                        snapdraon?a reader2009/08/28 08:51 AM
                          Thanks (NT)Michael S2009/08/29 12:53 PM
                        snapdraon?Paul2009/08/28 01:12 PM
              new POWER7 info ..EduardoS2009/08/27 03:41 PM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/28 05:03 AM
                  Single threaded performanceDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:52 AM
  Hot Chips XXI Preview onlinehobold2009/08/13 07:30 AM
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How do you spell purple?